The Federal Budget has the Potential to Destroy Business and Aspiration.

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

DI GILLETT [HOST] (00:02)

So Janine, when you hear that phrase power of women, do you think that’s where we’ve landed or we’re still a way off?

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (00:11)

I’ve never thought we haven’t landed there. So so I’m not this person that goes that we’ve never had the power of women. You know, I’ve I when I started Boost Juice Bars, there was four women that were my team and they were we were powerful. So, you know, I think that I think that’s not the fact that it didn’t exist, I think that we’re just recognizing it more now than we ever have before.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (00:32)

Yeah, fantastic.

 

I’m Di Gillett and welcome to the Power of Women Podcast. We’re a platform that showcases and celebrates the strength, resilience and achievements of women from all walks of life. And whilst most podcasts tell you what’s possible, these women share with you what it took to get there. It’s the place where women supporting women isn’t just a sentiment, it’s the decision we make every single day.

 

Now today I’m talking about the fallout from the federal budget, the CGT changes, the negative gearing and reforms, and what they have cost people building the country’s future. This is where policy really meets ambition and where that have a go ethos gets tested and where founders are calling it a tax on ambition.

 

I’ve pursued this conversation because I wanted to ask the woman who built a juice concept into a global retail network and is a serial entrepreneur exactly what these changes mean for business and more importantly for the next generation. Joining me from Sydney in Australia, Janine Allis welcome to the Power Of Women Podcast.

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (02:08)

Thanks for having me.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (02:10)

Janine, before we jump straight into some Q and A about what’s happened as a result of the the federal budget, could you tell me what was the motivation initially behind becoming an entrepreneur and launching your own business?

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (02:26)

Yeah.

 

Look, you know, sometimes y you know, people think that this it’s this big motivation. For me, honestly, it was going I wanna create ha I wanna be in charge of my own destiny and I found that the stresses I had was other people’s from other people’s results, so I thought I’d do it myself and I had no idea what I was getting into and I also had little kids at home, so I had three little children at home and I wanted to have the flexibility to run the life I wanted the way the my way. So and so yeah, and then

 

I stupidly thought, I could do this part time, that would be good.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (03:00)

Yeah. Not not so. And and on reflection, would you have done anything differently?

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (03:08)

Never. No, and did I do heaps of things wrong? Yes, every day I got things wrong. But it’s actually the no one learns anything from success. The only thing you ever learn is from failure. And so, you know, I was a person that was just creating system after system because I was like, right, ’cause you know, when you look at Boost Juice Bus, sure you go to a shopping centre and there it is and it’s standing there and it’s green and you have great get a great smoothie. But it came from thin air. So every s if you look at them and where they stand at their stations

 

I had to come up with that. I had to come up with recipes. I had to come up with the counter, the logo, the how did it looked, how did it feel. Like i it ca everything comes from your imagination and creation. And so and I think even when you see some big brands, everything started from nothing at some point. And so I think we forget that. We just think they’ve always existed. So yes, I think that yeah, so it was me just going, Right, okay

 

That was a that was a mistake. How do I fix that one? All right. I need a system for that one, and what are the rules that I need to follow?

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (04:09)

Yeah, and you’re still going, you’re still building new brands, so well done you.

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (04:13)

You’ve you’ve built

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (04:15)

And if I could jump into this whole issue that has come about most recently with the with the federal budget. And you’ve built businesses under different tax settings and when you look at the recent CGT changes, do you see them as a fair correction or a tax on the risk that you took?

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (04:37)

it’s not a correction. So if you look at why they’ve said they’ve done it, they’ve said they’ve done it to create more housing, right? Which I which is really bizarre because I look at pe people who interview them, I just want want people to say one ask him one question. How? How does these taxes help that?

 

And then when they do a study on it, they said in 20 years’ time it may help, right? We’re in a world right now of AI and change that we don’t even know what it’ll look like in two years’ time, let alone five years’ time, let alone ten years’ time, let alone 10 20 years’ time. So there’s gotta be more changes. So what it actually is is this it is a government that is in incredible debt, that cannot manage their money, and they’re just going after more taxes. Because all

 

All of these changes, and it’s not just capital gains tax, it’s also on equality gearing, it’s also on trusts, it’s also on lots of other things, right? It’s simply they’ve they’ve they’ve got the NDIS thing that’s out there which is not being which is being mismanaged and abused, right? I think it’s a good thing that it exists, but I think it’s been mismanaged and abused. Actually no it’s

 

and abused. and and so they just try to to fund stuff that they it’s just through mismanagement. So it’s like them go and it’s it’s I think it’s like stealing. It’s like, you know, if I’m a business and I’m not running it well, I’ve got to go in and actually fix it. They’re just going, we’re running this country poorly. how do we do it? We’ll just tax more. So it’s simply just taxing more. And what are they taxing? They’re taxing the businesses. And it’s just and people that

 

Actually anyone who wants to get ahead, forget businesses. If you want to do shares, if you want to do a business, if you wanna do property, anyone who wants to get ahead, they will tax you. Right? So

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (06:32)

And it’s been done retrospectively, Janine. So everything that we’ve stood to understand to be our wealth creation for the future has just just been eroded and and superannuation’s gotta be coming next.

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (06:47)

You look it th they they will go they will look under every rock. I d I have I can’t predict what they’re gonna look for. But I just feel really sorry for people because they’re going the what they’re saying is we need to reduce the price of property. So if you’ve worked your gut out and finally after years saved money for a deposit and then got in there, they’ve just devalued your property. It’s terrible. It’s terrible.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (07:12)

Yeah. You’ve got a workforce full of full of young people. Are you are you getting feedback from from the field?

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (07:19)

I’ve been getting feedback from the business community. Like I’ve got a business call a a business called the Business Academy and you know it’s and that’s probably why I stood up because I I hear first hand and no one was having a voice. People were be get being like really disillusioned and no one was speaking up for them. And you know, does anyone want to put their head up? No. You know. So I just felt so compelled that it was just so wrong that I went, right, I’m gonna go out and go. Do you does anyone understand what they’re doing because they’re doing better

 

I actually think Dave Hughes is doing a great job. I agree. In just g putting a light and a torch going, Have a look over here, guys.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (07:58)

Mm. Yeah. And that’s probably one of the last voices that you would have expected to talk about it too. So

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (08:05)

He’s a labor guy, you know.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (08:08)

Well there’s plenty of Labour guys speaking out, so it’s it’s he’s not on his own as as you aren’t. So the generation of Australians who are watching this debate and and are yet to dive into a a business as distinct to how this is impacting those who’ve started, what does it teach a a young twenty-two year old thinking about an entrepreneurial path?

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (08:32)

Look at the end of the day you’re built a certain way, right? So

 

fact that the government is basically going to be ripping you off is something you just go, I’ll deal with that in the future. You know, if you want to get into business and you have that entrepreneurial spirit, you want to do it your own way, most entrepreneurs don’t go into it and go, I want to be a millionaire or billionaire or whatever. They don’t. They go in and go, Wouldn’t it be good if I could find a solution to a problem? And that and I see a a a window that I could go in and do it. So that’s what entrepreneurs do. Right? Now the fact that the government’s been

 

them over and stealing from them, which I think that they are, is is a is part of something that hopefully in the future can be rectified. I don’t know if it can, but hopefully it can, because it’s not an encouraging businesses. But you know I think people just because of what they’ve done, I think people will still get into business. People do it. But will they think about doing in Singapore? Will they think about doing New Zealand?

 

Sure. Why wouldn’t you? Because you’ve got an opportunity now with the rules that you’re pr currently playing with to make different d decisions. Which, you know, that takes employment, that takes taxes, that takes you know, they’re so stupid.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (09:45)

So through through your business platform, are you hearing anything from the investment community in terms of a a change of momentum or a reticent to to actually invest?

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (09:57)

It th the the investment cu community is actually quite complex with regard to how they structure which then how they’re taxed. So that’s really individual to for different JV PEs and and and VCs firms. So I don’t I there’s definitely that component of what does this mean and how do we structure our things different? And is Australia the best place to

 

invest right so there’s definitely those discussions being had. I can’t tell you because I haven’t got the statistics if that means that there’s less people, but the reality is most people who do a business, their main exit is a pi pri a a a PE company that will come in and buy them. So if they’re not going to be looking here then it does give it’s hard it’s really hard to sell businesses. It’s really hard to it’s hard to do it’s hard it’s just hard.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (10:53)

It’s even hard

 

to pass them on generationally to ’cause the same thing, you’re not you’re not going to avoid the impact of of what’s happened. So it it feels like we’re being walloped at every at every turn. So Well coming up we’re gonna talk about is the have a go ethos still alive in the this country or in fact did the budget just kill it?

 

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So when you hear us say or or when you say, Janine, tax on ambition, is that a critique on what’s happened or is that a personal point of view?

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (11:43)

I d well it’s a personal point of view, right? So everyone has their view. I’m certainly not an expert in this field. I mean I don’t know actually I didn’t come up with it, but but whoever said it it it is true. It’s it’s just it’s it’s opportunistic, it’s just greedy. It’s just greedy and no one’s then no one’s taking accountability for actually running their own their own our money, our money that we are actually paying as tax, not running it effectively. They’re not taking they’re not being respectful, they’re not being

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (12:13)

Yeah. I think that I think they’re two key points, our money and and and lack of respect. I think that that sums it up in in a in a nutshell. So does this policy actually erode Australian entrepreneurial spirit, do you think?

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (12:29)

You know, I thought years ago what makes an Australian Australian and

 

You know, th quite often, you know, when you have children, you you pass on brown hair, brown eyes, but you also pass on certain traits. Now if you look at Australia and how it’s been created, it’s been created by people who have been very brave to leave their home and then come and actually come to Australia and immigrate here and start a new life and a better life. You have to be a certain person to be able to do that. And that’s like back with the Irish, back with the Italians, and now even now with the you know with new

 

Australians coming into us, right? You have to be a certain type. So there’s no Australian, unless you’re an Aboriginal, that has been here that hasn’t got a DNA of somewhere along the line of someone taking a risk. So I fundamentally believe that Australia’s DNA is one of risk and entrepreneurialism. And and

 

having that sense of adventure, which is what I think entrepreneurship is, is a sense of adventure. So I think we’re built that way. I think it’s in our DNA. I have no f scientific basis for that. I just think that.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (13:38)

No. And what about in terms of your DNA? Where do you think it came from if you look at your own lineage?

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (13:44)

my god, not from my parents. They are they are definitely no, I’m s I’m some sort of freak in my family. yeah, no, I look

 

You know, I think I’ve always been an adventurer. You know, I left left home well I left s left Australia at twenty one and came back seven years later after just going on an adventure. So I think I’m more an adventurer and I think that entrepreneurship i is sort of like an adventure. So yeah, so I think I’m built that way. But yeah, no, looking at the DNA maybe it’s a few generations away that that it wasn’t my parents.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (14:17)

What about with your kids? Do you think you’ve passed it on?

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (14:20)

My God, totally. Yeah, totally. Yeah, so I think children to sort of look I think you have to be sort of buck the system in some respects, but then our children my kids just sort of go, that’s what you do, isn’t it? You work for someone, learn the skill and then create your own business. So I think yeah, I think certainly two of my kids have got their own business and and another one is is doing a great job within one of our businesses. So no, they’re and then my eighteen year old daughter is just doing HSC so she has no idea what she wants to do.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (14:51)

She’ll be facing a tax a hex debt of some some sort. So she might have a different voting view to you until until she’s playing tax.

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (14:59)

Pretty much, yes.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (15:01)

Yeah. So and and on that point, do you do you think there is a difference between how these taxes are going to affect a twenty five year old founder who who may have l much less to lose and may be able to structure themselves correctly from

 

from the outset, the outset being now, versus a fifty five year old plus founder who’s got a mortgage, huge investment, and had an exit plan that had a sale attached to it in two or three years time.

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (15:36)

I think at the end of the day, you look at the rules that you have in front of you, right? So yes, the advantage of a twenty five year old, he can make decisions or he or she can make decisions based on the rules that they’ve got. And that’s why what probably my biggest gripe was was it was you’ve changed the rules, right? So you make decisions based on rules and you’ve changed the rules. You can’t change the rules, right? In some respects there is grandf some grandfathering. They’ve made it really complex of trying to please everyone and now we’re left trying to work out how to actually

 

you know, do it. So the guy that probably the you know, the fifty five year old guy who’s established a business who is looking at an exit, you know, because of this grandfather on the GST is probably okay is if he’s got the if he’s got the the existing house, he’s per primarily grandfathered for for the negative gearing, from what I understand. But the person starting don’t get those advantages. And they’re saying, but we’ve we’ve allowed it for it to be ten million dollars. But okay, so this twenty five year old

 

make sure you don’t make it no make sure you don’t do a good business make sure it’s a small business and if at any point any point you start to make it a decent business we’re gonna tax you not just a little bit more double we’re gonna tax you double

 

I mean that is just outrageous. Like outrageous that that that that is that is even the case. So for that entrepreneur to come in, they’re they’re gonna make they’re not gonna be able to make the money that that fifty-five year old made because they’re paying double the tax that person paid. Double. It’s just wrong. It’s so in actual fact the people that they’re trying to help, which is the people coming in new businesses, is the ones that they’re actually affecting the most.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (17:20)

Correct. And and on the basis of of that level of income stream coming through, they’ll never be able to buy a house. So that completely defeats what they’re trying to tell us.

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (17:30)

So okay,

 

let’s try and get a mortgage. Okay, let’s do some shares so we can get some money for the mortgage. sorry, better tax you double on that. Sorry.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (17:37)

Yeah. Yeah. And and they’re probably carrying a if they’ve gone to uni they’re carrying a a hexteck that’s already a huge noose around their around their neck in terms of their their financial profile. Hmm. Yeah, crazy. But it seems, Janine, that for the past fifty years successive governments, regardless of of their colour, have actually understood what, you know, aspiration and and that entrepreneurial spirit is about. But it but it seems in the last three or four years or

 

post COVID that Australia in particular just hasn’t righted itself. Do you think that’s a a reasonable view or am I being too harsh?

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (18:17)

I don’t know, I think it’s about votes. Right? I don’t know.

 

I think that you’ve got an extreme party which is the Greens. Now I didn’t understand what the Greens were at the start. I just went, they like trees. I like trees. Let’s vote for them, right? So then when you start to look at their it’s a bit socialist, their views and what they’re looking at, right? So they’ve got in because they’ve been the second or third vote on the on the thing, right? That’s how they’ve got their their their seats. So what they’ve got is now it’s all about so we forget about what’s good for the country or not. It’s actually about ego and it’s making it’s

 

Actually, about getting things through. So for me, I look at it and go, Labor has to incorporate some of the ex greens extreme views to actually get things through. It’s all about you know force trading. So people think it’s a you think it’s about this big philosophy, it’s actually about vote.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (19:13)

Staying

 

in power.

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (19:14)

And staying in power, right? It has nothing to do with the benefit of Australia. It has nothing to do with, you know, growth. Because the other thing is they’re only in there for four years, right?

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (19:25)

No,

 

and their and their thinking is so short term and to your point, simply about being being being vote winning.

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (19:32)

Yeah, and keeping their jobs and then keeping this lovely little you know, forever package that they get. Like it’s

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (19:38)

Yeah. And they’ve and they’ve probably never run a business and don’t understand what it’s what it’s like to to read a P&L. Well clearly in Victoria they don’t know what it’s like to read a P and L.

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (19:48)

my God, that’s out of control, isn’t it? It’s so

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (19:50)

Isn’t

 

it? Isn’t it? Yeah. And changing the face changes nothing.

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (19:55)

No,

 

no, it actually doesn’t. Like, you know, I’ve got a nephew who is in the construction industry and he works all over Australia and he arrived into Victoria and was bullied into joining and bullied and it was like it was things like

 

the the it says it’s gonna rain in half an hour. Tools down. Never rain that day. Right? It’s just it was just like that, my God. It’s just and you know, the thing is though, the other thing is, they’re not gonna give up power. They’re not gonna give up the bad the corruption. So there’s gonna be death threats. There’s gonna be you know people

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (20:31)

Of course there is. Well not will be, has been.

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (20:34)

Is i it is happening. There’s gonna be money put under the table. There is it is so corrupt. It’s gonna be dropped.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (20:41)

If you

 

ran your business like that, you don’t get to sail away into the sunsh sunset with a with a lifetime income and a and a superannuation strateg funding that’s paid off the public purse that’s going to fund you. You’d you’d end up being in a in a criminal court you know, with them crawling all all over your finances and looking where you’d offshored your offshored your money. But politicians get a get a pat on the back and off they go and no accountability.

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (21:10)

If I ever ruled the world I’d change that.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (21:12)

Yes, so would I.

 

If to rule the world? Yeah, well I’m a former search firm, search executive, Janine. I’ll let I’ll let you know if it comes up. And then I’ll speak

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (21:24)

I think it’s bowl just to fix that.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (21:26)

Yeah, exactly. So with Australia being the the highest capital gains tax rate in the developed world, is anybody in the future really going to start a business here? You’ve already mentioned, you know, New Zealand, Singapore. Do you think that’s going to be the trend?

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (21:43)

Yeah, absolutely. You know, and and that’s the whole thing, ’cause they do these numbers based on the status quo, but the status quo about incentives, right? So now they’re going so people and but it’ll affect employment, it’ll already, you know, we’re coming up for a really interesting age, right? So the the age of AI yeah is actually going to be quite dramatic. It’s gonna be people it’s already affecting now. So right now things like big corporates aren’t taking the interns in. They don’t need to, right?

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (22:12)

Right.

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (22:12)

So already there’s a s there’s not necessarily layoffs, which there is layoff in some industry, but there’s there’s not the opportunities, right? So you’ve got that. So through one to three years, we won’t notice it as much. Three years will start to really hurt. Five years we’re in a s serious social social issue, right? Yeah. So then you layer on what the government’s done with disincentivising businesses. And so they’re gonna go ’cause so so they’re gonna go, Okay, well we’ve gotta make more money, we’re gonna do

 

staff o offshore because you know that’s gonna work a lot better for us because it ch they adding on payroll tax everything so we’re gonna do that, we’re gonna we’re gonna do all these things that makes business owners just to survive try and find ways around it. Okay, okay, I need to set up in New Zealand. Fine. Okay, good skiing New Zealand, I’ll go to New Zealand, right? I’ll live in Singapore. I’ll live somewhere else other than Australia because it will it is all my hard work will just go there and I can still have the benefit of, you know, visiting Australia without

 

the the taxes. So it will be I’m very concerned for Australia, actually the world, but Australia with regard to the these decisions, if they’re not reversed, I’m very concerned for Australia in three to five.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (23:27)

Yeah. Yeah. On that, the government says that they’re still consulting with business. Now, how the hell do you consult after the event? You typically consult before you bring in some significant point in change or or transformation. Is are they consulting? Is business having any dialogue or is it is that just performative for the camera? So

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (23:53)

Di are you saying that because a the politician said they’re doing something, they’re actually doing something? Like is that like sorry? Yeah, seriously? Yeah. you know just into Allen turned around and said the Victorian government have all this power to be able to help corruption. The Victorian government, the Victorian police coming sorry, the Victorian police have all this power, right? Victorian police come in and go, We have no power.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (24:18)

Yeah.

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (24:19)

So it’s like

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (24:21)

Yeah.

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (24:23)

So so

 

what they tend to do is they go, All right guys, what’s our one line? Right? No matter what question they ask us, what is our one line? Right? That’s our one line. It’s media training, but it’s bullshit. All we want is authenticity. That’s all we want. And it’s

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (24:37)

And

 

and you and you raised the point, Janine, on on on media trading. I mean I think I think if we could put a coin in the jar of every time we heard Dan Andrews or Jacinta Allan say, Let me be clear, for Ben Carroll to then come out and say, This is a new era, but he phrased it, prefaced it with let me be very clear. I know.

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (25:00)

It’s magnificent.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (25:02)

It is horrific. There are there are a couple of lines that

 

Incite me to throw the T V control, I can tell you. That’s that’s absolutely one of them. Janine, final question today. What would your advice be for a female founder or a female entrepreneur considering starting a business, given what we know today?

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (25:26)

I think the end of the day is get out of your own way. ‘Cause I think what we do is in our head we say things like, imposter syndrome, glass ceiling, we can’t do it because of, right? I think at the end of the day the reason I became successful was because I was naive. I didn’t know what I didn’t know. I didn’t know that I couldn’t do it. I didn’t know you weren’t able to do a hundred stores in four years. I didn’t know that that was not a thing, right? And bec so I wasn’t in my way. I just went, right, okay, we’ve got to do it, gotta find a way.

 

Here we go, right? So in actual fact, I think that we just need to go how do you move a mountain? One rock at a time, right? If you look at the whole mountain, we can’t do it. So you just take one step, get started, don’t just caught up in analysis paralysis, just get started and start learning.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (26:14)

Yeah. Thank you. I think we can agree having a go was was never free and and this budget didn’t kill ambition, but it certainly made it more expensive. And harder.

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (26:25)

Mm.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (26:26)

And harder. Yeah. Janine, thank you so much for sharing your views and also thank you so much for speaking out publicly when when so many people have been reticent to do so given the given the changes as as business owners we’re all feeling. And

 

And I can only hope that somebody can come in and correct the ledger.

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (26:49)

Yep, we could only hope. And and the thing is hope but vote.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (26:53)

Yeah, well that’s right. Yeah, you’ve we’ve got it we’ve got a choice to make. We

 

JANINE ALLIS [Guest] (26:57)

We do. We do.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (26:58)

1. Thank you. Thank you. Until next time.