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Lead Through the Power of Your Story

Lead Through the Power of Your Story

Own your voice. Build networks that empower. Create a legacy that lasts.

The Power Of Women Podcast opens the 2026 season with a defining conversation on influence, voice, legacy and understanding the power of YOUR story.

In this episode, host Di Gillett sits down with global brand strategist and Powerful Steps founder Tory Archbold to explore the new rules of influence. Why women must own their voice, how empowered networks shape opportunity, and what it takes to build a legacy rooted in purpose and alignment.

Drawing on decades of experience building iconic brands and advising women globally, Tory shares the moments that shaped her leadership, what she attributes her success in business to, and why influence is no longer about noise, but about clarity, truth and impact.

 

You’ll hear :

  • How influence has evolved and what that means for women in 2026.
  • Why owning your voice changes how you lead and how you’re seen.
  • How to build networks that empower rather than diminish.
  • What legacy leadership looks like beyond career milestones.

 

Tory said:

“Your voice isn’t something you earn. It’s something you choose to use.”

“The right network doesn’t make you smaller, it expands who you’re becoming.”

“Legacy is built when influence is grounded in alignment, not approval.”

📖 Read the full transcript of this conversation here 👇

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (00:03)

And I had the opportunity to go and work in some of the biggest entertainment companies in the world in London on the working holiday visa. So I was exposed to George Lucas films, 20th Century Fox, MTV, Nickelodeon. Leaders listening right now lead through the power of your story. But don’t just put it there and go, ⁓ I launched Zara. That was such a long time ago, Di. People always ask me about it. But that’s not my story anymore.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (00:29)

A moment that changed everything for you.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (00:32)

Mind Age Eth Experience.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (00:34)

The most underrated skill for women in leadership. A belief you had to let go of to rise.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (00:37)

Self-belief.

 

People pleasing. You know, they were saying, but men judge us. I said, but you’re not putting yourself in the shoes of the men. Men also have stories. Men also have challenges and they feel that they’re going to be judged too.

 

So the top 1 % of female leaders around the world stand in their authentic truth. A happy heart is a magnet for miracles. Self-belief is your superpower.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (01:12)

I’m Di Gillett and welcome to the Power Of Women Podcast. What I love about this platform is the opportunity to showcase and celebrate the strength, resilience and achievement of women from all walks of life. And that tapestry is getting richer as the community grows as we enter our third year. Can’t believe it. So join the conversation if you haven’t already.

 

Jump on to YouTube and subscribe to the channel there, or you can listen to us on any of the audible platforms. I am super excited though to start the new year with a very special guest. She hails from Sydney, but she is truly a global citizen these days, jumping between Riyadh, the US and Australia. She’s a woman whose name is synonymous with influence.

 

visibility, alignment and unapologetic leadership. But before I introduce her to you, let me ask you this. If you could change one thing in your life that stopped downplaying your voice and truly stepped into your power, what would that be? So every week I sit down with women who change the narrative in business, in leadership,

 

and in life. Women who don’t just rise, but more importantly, women who bring others along with them. And today’s guest is an exemplar of all of the aforementioned. Tory Archbold is the founder of Powerful Steps, a global platform activating the purpose, voice and leadership of high performing women across the globe.

 

She has built international brands, shaped cultural moments, and transformed the way women see themselves and their voice. And she does it in one unmistakable step of heart-led, high-impact truth. She’s a global strategist, a keynote speaker, and author of Self-Belief is Your Superpower, and the host of top-rating podcast, Powerful Stories.

 

Her mantra, lead with truth, partner with purpose, and build a legacy that outlives you. And today we’re going deep. We’re going to talk about how to elevate your voice, how to build networks that empower, and how to own your story with clarity, conviction, and alignment. Tory Archbold, welcome to the Power of Women podcast. ⁓

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (04:01)

so grateful to be here and what a welcome. Thank you Di.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (04:05)

It’s taken a while, Tory, and it is so good to have you in the studio. Could we kick off today with your story because your story is pretty rich in its own way. Can you take us to some of those early defining moments?

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (04:22)

I love this question because everyone’s like, tell me your story, Tory.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (04:30)

I’m sorry I didn’t quite get the string of that right.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (04:35)

So my story really started with rejection, if I’m completely honest with you, and a little bit of judgment thrown into the mix. So I like to say that I am a woman who jumped out of the box of expectations at a really young age and into a global world of opportunities.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (04:43)

Mmm.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (04:59)

And I say that with my hand on my heart because I think when you reflect on the journey of who you are and where you come from, you really need to look at the highs, lows, and those game-changing moments. And one of the defining moments for me was when I started my first business, Tourstar, at 24 years of age. Very young. Very young. And I backed myself through self-belief. But also, I knew that I could ignite change.

 

And I wanted to create and build really powerful brands because, like many Australians, when you’re young in your early 20s, you’re schooled by the University of Life, not necessarily a degree, and you go and you explore the world. And I had the opportunity to go and work in some of the biggest entertainment companies in the world, in London, on the working holiday visa. So I was exposed to George Lucas films, 20th Century Fox, MTV, Nickelodeon, you know, the whole portfolio of Viacom.

 

And I fell in love with the power of storytelling. Absolutely loved it. And I thought, if there’s one thing that I can do that’s going to ignite change in this world, it’s going to be able to tap into the power of storytelling, but also take people on a journey. And I loved that. Like I was always an avid reader, you know, all the magazines, and I always loved the movies. But most importantly, I loved connecting with people.

 

And so when I came back to Australia, no one wanted to give me a job. Absolutely no one. I think that I was a little bit ahead of the times, but people didn’t recognize the depth of my knowledge and my capabilities. And I was actually okay with that because I always believe in life, you forge your own path. And so when it had coffee, because I couldn’t afford to take people lunch.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (06:29)

You put that down too.

 

Of course.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (06:48)

And I always remember the advice like coffee not lunch because in those days coffee dates were $2 right? Yeah. It’s now some places in world. Yeah, $25 in some parts of the world to just buy someone a coffee but it was like a $2 exchange of energy and listening into what people needed and what I really recognized was that no one was tapping into what was happening on a global stage.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (06:58)

be the price of lunch.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (07:14)

And I saw my laneway and I thought to myself, imagine if I could actually use the knowledge and the frameworks that I had been taught by what I would call wise souls who took me under their wing for those short stints in those incredible entertainment companies and actually transformed that into a business. And so I did. And it was called Tour Star. Started when I was 24. No money in the bank.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (07:39)

Where does self-belief come from, Tory? Because that’s, you you say you come from, one of the words you said you come from is judgment. So how did you tap in and identify that self-belief so young?

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (07:52)

So

 

the judgment came from rejection over when I went for coffee dates and it was actually an ex-boyfriend, so let’s get really serious here. Who ended up running one of the biggest advertising agencies in this region for quite some time. He was more of a hero and a legend in the industry, but he just couldn’t see what I could see at that point in time. And when I went for the coffee date and said,

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (08:02)

I had that rejection.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (08:17)

team I’ll never forget it was in Bills in Crown Street and I said look I think I’m going to start my own agency I’m going to call it Torstar and it’s going to be a branding communications agency and it is going to attract the world’s top performing brands celebrities and influencers and he kind of looked at me and wanted to put me back in the box that my parents had placed me and he’s like I think you should go and you know finish that interior design degree so that you can go and be a really good homemaker.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (08:42)

We wanted to keep you small.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (08:45)

Absolutely and white picket fence and that’d be it but I’d already said no to that by going to London. Yeah. And so I remember walking out of that coffee date so clearly in Crown Street and kind of like putting my hand in the air as a bit of a fuck you. ⁓

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (08:59)

And thank you for the momentum.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (09:01)

Thank

 

you and thank you and I’m going to use that to actually drive forward my idea and so I did and no one in Australia would give me the opportunity to work with their brands because of course I didn’t have a track record and so I called a friend in London and I said to her look this is my idea this is the agency that I want to create what do you think and she said to her it’s brilliant I’m going to introduce you to someone who actually became my first client you always need a marquee client when you step out on your own

 

And my first client was launching Megan Gayle’s The Face of David Jones. And from there, I mean, it was all just based on referrals because I anchored every decision that I made in that business and my three values, passion, integrity, delivery. I had the intent to create and build powerful brands, but most importantly, I was the woman that delivered. And so if you deliver and you’re magnetic and you’re

 

years are so creative and outside of the box and anyone else’s, what’s going to happen? You’re going to attract. But also when you attract, how do you retain? So my clients on average stay with me for eight and a half, nine years, which is unheard

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (10:02)

Cool.

 

That’s

 

know even if I had the good fortune of holding on to a client for three or four years in the search space before somebody knocked you off your perch, you’ve done well. So that’s incredible.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (10:24)

And I do want talk about knocking people off your perch because I remember when I was pregnant with my daughter Isabella and I went to see a client and I saw that someone had basically looked at my website, looked at the clients I had because these were in the early days of, know, my gosh, you’ve got to have a website, how do you promote yourself because you usually used to go in and hand over a presentation presented. I’m about to give birth.

 

And another woman who had started an agency, I remember it was this one client, then I went to the next client, then the next client, and sitting on all of their desks was a presentation from her saying why she was better than me.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (11:03)

and she saw your pregnancy as a moment of weakness.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (11:06)

Correct, but it actually was a moment of strength. What is that? Give it back, you know. All of the things.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (11:14)

What is that in the world of sisterhood? Because that is very blatantly taking the decision to stamp on somebody’s parade.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (11:25)

It absolutely is and that same woman used to come up as a plus one to my events with the media and hand out her business cards at my events. I mean, I looked at that situation, I thought, okay, she wants what I have. Yeah.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (11:40)

So she’s already on the back foot she’s chasing?

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (11:43)

She wants what I have, but she’s not me. And for anyone listening to these podcasts, always remember, like, you are unique. You have a unique footprint. She can’t be me. And it didn’t dampen what was a stellar career. And I ended up attracting the best of the best.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (12:03)

And I love that you say that because there were a few critics when I first decided to call my podcast Power of Women because I had actually secured the domain name Power of Women 10 years earlier with an idea that I was going to build some purpose-led female platform. And I said, well, that’s true. If I Google Power of Women, there’s a few in the marketplace, not as many as you might think.

 

But there’s only one power of women with diagelate.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (12:34)

Correct. And you are the star of the show. You are the leader of your own destiny. And you know, as Oprah said, I saw her in Sydney last night. She said, lead yourself. Lead yourself. Rise up as yourself. And so I’ve always lived by that motto as well. And I was an Oprah fan, you know, I’m sure you were as well. We were young. She leans into the heart, not ego.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (12:45)

Mmmmm ⁓

 

Absolutely.

 

Yeah.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (13:02)

And so I think that if you believe in an idea and you believe that you can step into it, that’s your intent, that’s your purpose. All you need to do is anchor it back to your values and it’s the ripple effect.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (13:13)

With Torstar, it was incredibly successful, but you walked away after what was it, 20 years. not because the business was on a downward trajectory. You walked away at the top of its power. What led to that?

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (13:30)

my intuition. The secret whispers of life. ⁓

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (13:35)

 

One of my favourite things that so many women don’t acknowledge or listen to.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (13:42)

the secret whispers of life. So I knew that I had a story that I wasn’t telling. And while I was really good at creating and building brands and obviously telling the stories of global businesses, but also CEOs, board directors, founders, like the best of the best, I like to call them the top 1%, at the same time I wasn’t being honest about who I was. And so there was this niggly feeling inside of me,

 

And I remember it actually came from the movie, Hard Loser Guy in 10 Days.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (14:17)

As distinct to my pretty woman experience in Sydney only recently of not being allowed into a luxury boutique. See, we’ve all got a movie.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (14:24)

We’ve all got a baby. So my daughter and I, Bella, we’re in LA and I had just won the keys to freedom through standing up and winning full custody in a non-contact order in the Federal Circuit Court of Australia. So I think I’m one of three percent of women that self represent and actually successful, successful in the sense that it was 12 years. It almost broke me.

 

But I came through that tunnel and saw the light and was completely happy. And my daughter was young at the age and we’d been watching on repeat this Matthew McConaughey movie. And I said to I think it’s ready, well it’s time for me to start dating. But I only had five days free in my diary.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (15:08)

And was Matthew your pin-up of what you wanted do? he wasn’t! Because he would have been mine!

 

He actually wasn’t! have been mine!

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (15:15)

Before we were due to hop on a flight back to Sydney from LA, we actually bumped into him in the park. Like this is like serendipity, the way this all turns out. And it was all about my daughter saying, Mom, I want a picture with Matthew. And I said, well, that’s not what you really do, because I work with a lot of people like that. If you never take photos with them, it was my golden rule. And ⁓ she said, well, can you ask him? Can you ask him? And I felt so uncomfortable. So I asked him and he said, no.

 

Sorry, no. And then we kind of, no, he was just like, no, photos, no photos. But then do you know what the crazy thing was? Then this paparazzi guy comes along and takes his photos. And I looked back and I was like, you’re saying no to like my daughter is under 10 and yes to the paparazzi. And then of course it was like Matthew McConnachie on Venice beach working out. And I thought that’s, that was the reason. And I was okay with that. But anyway, we actually decided to use that for fuel to the fire.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (15:47)

A southern drool?

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (16:14)

And when I came back to Australia, I was on Bumble and I decided that I was going to date six guys in five days and learn about myself die. And I learned more about myself from dating five different guys than I did in a lifetime. And so I started to understand the power of is tour style what I really want?

 

Do I really want to be around all of these so-called celebrities and power brokers who sometimes aren’t showing the heart and the empathy and they can disappoint us? And what if I actually dug deep and looked at what my story was and how that can help other people? Now, ironically, Matthew went on to do Greenlights and it’s a book I absolutely love.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (16:48)

And they can disappoint you.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (17:05)

And I do think that that moment in time where our paths crossed, it was maybe not a great time for him. And I was actually coming out of the tunnel into the light. So I was stepping up into what he is. Ultimately, he’s done so much for so many people by sharing the power of his story. But I look at that time and I think to myself, who have I not worked with? What are the things that I want to wrap up? What am I going to do with the 22 staff that I have? How are we going to pay forward my…

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (17:11)

Yeah

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (17:33)

knowledge and what’s the legacy piece going to look like. It wasn’t TORSTAR and I was 44 years old and I shut the doors. I had an offer on the table to sell and I said no to the money and yes to myself. Best decision of my life.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (17:36)

and it wasn’t tossed.

 

Because selling meant you had to go with it. And cuffed.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (17:51)

Handcuffs?

 

And I don’t like handcuffs. I like creating and delivering impact.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (17:55)

Everyone

 

And neither does our audience.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (18:00)

Through the heart, not the ego. And, you know, my last three clients were Drew Barrymore, Steve Madden, and Victoria’s Secret, three of the top brands out of the US. But they each taught me something about myself to give me the confidence to walk away because I was no longer afraid of judgment.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (18:21)

Yeah, you got there at 44. I think I said to my husband earlier that day, and I did have a guest on the show last year who said she was a late bloomer. And I actually think I’m a late bloomer too. I’m now early 60s, but I think I really stepped into who I am visually, emotionally.

 

in every respect when I hit 50.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (18:54)

I mentor so many incredible women and right now I’m mentoring a beautiful lady who’s about to turn 70. And she’s worked with every major star you can think of in Hollywood. And she’s looking at me as her mentor to show her what does her legacy piece look like.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (19:14)

because she’s done it for others and she’s done nothing for others. I remember that lesson, Tory. You mentioned something not dissimilar to me.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (19:16)

nothing for herself so she’s gone back to her

 

Yeah.

 

Tap into the power of your story and who would have known that it had a naked chairman. You know, your story, there were all of these twists and turns to who you are as a woman. And one of the gifts of LinkedIn for me is connecting with women like you, who now have the confidence to share their story. Because now when you look at who you’re interviewing, you look at the caliber, you look at the vibration.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (19:47)

Absolutely.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (19:48)

It’s

 

because you actually stood in your power and owned it. Because when we first met, you didn’t own it. You didn’t.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (19:56)

I

 

was giving it away. I had it, but I actually think I was giving it away. were. I don’t know whether that’s generosity or stupidity, but I’m not going to ask you to answer that. It’s It was a decision.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (20:01)

But now you’re owning it.

 

Yeah, it’s generosity. But I know since we have that time together and watching your journey now and the impact that you create, it’s extraordinary. And you are one of those top 1 % women that I talk about because you’re in alignment, your soul’s happy, your heart’s happy. Absolutely. And your voice means something to other people. And that’s what we call the ripple effect. That’s the legacy of who we are as women.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (20:40)

But does it still surprise you, because I know it still surprises me with some of the feedback that comes back of thanking you for sharing and putting it out there. That still feels very new and unfamiliar to me. Does that dissipate or change with time or is that revelation a revelation every time?

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (21:02)

It just makes me happy. It makes me so happy that you can crack open the hearts of female leaders. And that when you meet them, and then when you see them a few years later, I mean, last night after Oprah, I had so many women I hadn’t seen that I mentored through COVID, even from regional Australia, coming up and hugging me and saying, Tory, you’ve changed my life. And I always say, no, you just called me. And all you did.

 

was follow the frameworks and you did the work, which is why you are there. But I always say, thank you, you know, thank you for acknowledging that, but it was actually you.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (21:41)

Mm. Mm. I love that. Now, you have a book, Self-Belief is Your Superpower, that you released some time ago. I believe you’re working on a new book. Can you tell us anything about it?

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (21:53)

I am.

 

My legacy, my way. Because, Di, I feel that when we get to the halfway mark of our lives, like so many of the listeners as well, we’re looking at how can we give back? How can what we’ve been taught or we’ve learned along the highway of life apply to the next generation? Or how can we actually give others the confidence to navigate challenging situations? And so when I teach others, I also teach myself.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (21:58)

I love it.

 

Mmm.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (22:24)

And I realized that this year that there was a big milestone in my life when my father died. And I was estranged for many, many years from him, not because I didn’t love him, but because our values didn’t align. And integrity is one of them. Integrity is really important to me. And he knows the reason why I walked away. And he asked for forgiveness in front of my daughter, which was a really big healing moment for me.

 

And so when he passed and I did a post on Instagram saying that, you know, this is why he was in my life for some time, but this is what I’ve learned from it, everyone started commenting and they jumped in and I had a phone call from the CEO of the time of Hello Sunshine when I was in West Hollywood hosting an event a couple of weeks later for Powerful Steps. And she said to me, Tory, that’s what we call the ripple effect.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (23:04)

jumped in.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (23:20)

Honesty from women is such a rare thing and I’d met her a few years beforehand.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (23:26)

extraordinary. Honesty from women. What’s the decision to hold back?

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (23:32)

They’re afraid of the truth. They’re afraid of what people will think of them. It’s a judgment piece that we spoke about. And she knew the back end of my story of how I’d won full custody, how I’d created this business, how I’d attracted all of these brands. And she said to me, you know, that story is pretty extraordinary. She said, but I think you’ve got another story. Tory. And I said, ⁓ I think I do. And she said, I think it’s time to tell it.

 

And I was going to Saudi Arabia, my husband’s based in Riyadh, I now live there with him. And she said, I want you to go to the desert and ride it. And so I’m about to wrap it up. And yeah, my story will go into film and a whole lot of vertical. I’m very excited.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (24:15)

Very exciting.

 

Brilliant. I look forward to being at the launch, could be in Riyadh ⁓

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (24:25)

all around the world. It’s manifested.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (24:28)

There we go. I will clear my diary. Now, Forbes wrote, she leads with heart and healing what corporate women crave right now. What do you think corporate women are missing? Because there’s a lot of leadership issues going on in the marketplace and there’s a lot of business women who listen to this podcast.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (24:52)

Women are afraid of standing in their truth when they’re in corporates for fear of judgment, fear of not getting that promotion, fear of what their team will think, fear of if they actually think someone discovers something about them that doesn’t align with company values. But actually it’s the opposite. It is the complete opposite because I explained this when I was doing the opening keynote for the Salesforce Female Lead Program the other day in Sydney.

 

And, you know, they were saying, but men judge us. I said, but you’re not putting yourself in the shoes of the men. Men also have stories. Men also have challenges and they feel that they’re going to be judged too. So if you strip it all back and you’re honest with each other, imagine the magic you can create. One of my biggest posts on Instagram, it went viral. It’s sitting at about 80,000 organic views right now. And it’s me crying.

 

And it’s me finding out that my dad’s ashes had been left at the crematorium. After four and a half months, my sisters had left him there. After they uninvited me to a funeral, we might…

 

But I give this as an example because my intuition at the time was like video this moment when the New South Wales government on compassionate grounds gave me access to 1,030 medical documents so that I could actually access the truth of what happened. And so when I found out, it wasn’t because my sisters told me how my dad passed, it wasn’t that the executives of the will told me how my dad passed even though I was next of kin.

 

It was through the kindness of this incredible man ⁓ from the New South Wales government and I just watched myself just film this moment. It was just like my intuition saying it and I was spot on and I’m sharing this because it’s related to corporate women in Australia. That did not change corporate women or corporate businesses booking me into the next year for keynotes around the world.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (26:54)

Mmm.

 

how they.

 

Because it wasn’t seen as weakness.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (27:07)

It wasn’t a weakness, it was a strength because I was in my authentic truth and I was distressed. I was crying. But I’ve actually pinned that to the top of my Instagram because I think it’s a powerful reminder to any female leader anywhere in the world that the raw and authentic moments are the most powerful. Gone are the glossy days when you turn up with the airbrushing, which you and I have both done.

 

because of course that we you know we grew up in magazine media and you know all of those things

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (27:41)

The

 

real power is in vulnerabilities.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (27:44)

want it. And then on LinkedIn, you know, I might be in different parts of the world and saying I’m going on a coffee date and people would be like, but Tory, you’re wearing your workout gear. I’m like, so what? Some of the most powerful coffee dates in my life have been with women like Shelly’s Alice, who created the female quotient and who through acts of kindness and coffee dates says to me, Tory, we can create magic together.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (28:10)

and you’re in your gym gear.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (28:12)

And so is she. And she’s like, Tory, help yourself to coffee in my house and I’m going to fly to Australia and I’m going to see what you’ve created with Powerful Steps. Now, she wasn’t judging me on what I wore. She wasn’t judging me that my skin might have been a little bit blotchy. So for corporate women who are struggling right now, don’t be afraid to share those moments because every strong woman in the world has those moments.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (28:38)

We’ve come a long way from the 1980s power suit. Thank God for that. ⁓

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (28:44)

Mine were all given away.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (28:48)

Well, coming up, we’re going to shift gears into two big themes that every woman in leadership needs right now. Firstly, how to elevate your voice and how to build networks that empower. Back soon.

 

If you’re loving the Power of Women podcasts, be sure to jump onto our YouTube channel and hit that subscribe button to ensure you never miss an episode.

 

So you’re listening to the Power of Women podcast and if you’re enjoying the show, jump on and follow us on any of the podcast platforms. I’m joined today by Tory Archbold, brand builder, cultural activist and powerful advocate for women owning their voice. Tory, when a woman says, I want my voice to be heard, what’s the step to do that?

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (29:43)

The first step is getting out of your own way. It’s like, get out of your own way. Well, I knew you had such an incredible story, but it was getting it in writing. So when you own your story, you own your power. It’s pretty simple. But most women don’t hit pause and they don’t give back to themselves to truly know the power of their story.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (29:46)

There you go. think that’s what you said to me.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (30:08)

So the ones that actually hit pause, invest the time in getting to know themselves, right from the start, are the ones that are the high vibrational women that can walk into any room anywhere around the world and people will say yes.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (30:23)

That’s a really interesting point and I know I came out of a de facto relationships a couple of years before I met my husband 20 years ago. And I had to really stop and that was the first time I truly paused because I’d gone from one average relationship to another and it was like, just a second, what’s wrong? Because I don’t think there’s anything wrong with me. There’s something wrong with what I’m doing.

 

And of two years of purposely staying single, I recognised that I had allowed men to choose me rather than me to do the choosing. And that was the turning point. And it was early 40s actually. So I say I didn’t step into my parents until I was 50, but I didn’t get to know myself until I was 40, which then gave me the foundations to step up.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (31:21)

Jitko Queen, I am with you.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (31:24)

There you go. You

 

too got married later in life like I did.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (31:28)

Yeah,

 

46 for the first time.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (31:31)

and I was 41. Yeah. Highly recommend holding off.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (31:34)

I know. And just, you know, about telling your story. I remember when I had a copywriter when I was first starting Powerful Steps and she said, Tory, you need to do your bio. And she actually put in it that Drew Barrymore ended my career. And I thought, oh my gosh, I can’t say that, but it was actually true. But in a good way. When he clicked on it, it was a good way. But she also said in there, and I got married for the first time at 46. And I said, why are you putting that in there?

 

And she said, you watch the women will slide into your DMS and you’ll build a business. And I thought no one commented, but we did talk about corporate women and being afraid of the truth. And my DMS were jam packed with women saying, I can’t believe that you got married for the first time at 46. How is that possible? And if you actually

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (32:27)

wasn’t a criticism.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (32:28)

It wasn’t. was like, how did you meet your match? So it actually opened up a whole lot of other conversations. And if you Google my name now, normally one of the top three things that come up is Tory Archibald’s husband. People are desperate to know like, who’s the husband? but my husband’s name is Craig. And he’s my soulmate.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (32:39)

at 46.

 

Isn’t that interesting? That’s how you take control of the narrative.

 

I love you.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (32:56)

And hopefully we have this happily ever after scenario like you and George.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (33:01)

Well, I think so because we’ve done the work before we embarked on them. So how does a woman begin to own her story in a way that’s, and importantly, because there’s so much ⁓ unauthentic information out there. mean, think social media is allowed for it. How does she do it in a safe and authentic manner?

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (33:26)

She actually clears her diary and she says to herself, I’m going to open a Google Doc. I’m going to follow Tory’s five-point story framework. And it’s really simple. So you are writing your own hero’s journey. Yeah. So point one of your story when you’re writing is like, who are you? What kind of a family did you grow up in? What were the dynamics? Where were you living? What are your core memories? The second part is, well,

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (33:43)

Mmm.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (33:56)

When you left school, what did you want to become? So I always talk, you know, in interviews or when I’m coaching people now, and I said it in this interview as well, everyone wanted to box me. And I jumped out of the box and I went to London and I worked with the world’s best entertainment companies. But then in part three of your story is how you’re using that to step into your success story. So your success story is always, you know, what are three things that you became so brilliant at that nobody can take away from you?

 

But give me some facts. Give me some juice. So I always talk about the fact that, you know, Zara, I launched Zara into Australia. 22,000 people, a million dollars on, you know, the day of launch. But it wasn’t about me, it was about the collective team, right? So when I’m writing in the story, I give examples like that. Then it’s always success with a little bit of survival. So what people don’t realize about me, and when you’re thinking about writing your own story,

 

is well, what did you survive when you’re at the top of your game? Because everyone had a child. Yeah, your naked chairman. So mine was an ex-partner like the father of my child where I was stalked, harassed and intimidated for up to 100 touch points a day. I was one of the first women in New South Wales to get an AVO around people that actually target you online. And so when you look at all of these things, no one knew that part of my story because

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (34:59)

And that’s my naked chairman.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (35:25)

part four of my story, is a game-changing moment, which I like to call like the fuck you from the universe. So when you’re writing it, it’s like, well, what is it? You had burnout, I had burnout, I had a near-death experience. And so, you know, 72 hours before I was due on a flight to London to host some global media, my appendix burst. I ended up with septicemia. I lost eight kilos in five days. I had 12 rounds of antibiotics.

 

and I did not get better until that surgeon said to me, Tory, you don’t know how to be happy. I said, what do you mean? What is happiness? And he handed me a piece of paper and on it was a happy heart as a magnet for miracles. So when I’m writing a magnet, he handed that to me. And it’s now because I share it with everyone.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (36:04)

We it.

 

I know it’s a phrase you use but it was given to you.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (36:12)

from the surgeon who saved my life. And it’s also helped thousands of women around the world because I share it willingly. in that Google Doc, when you’re writing a story, think about those moments. Who helped you navigate them? I also recognise in point four of my story that I was an ultimate people pleaser. And also, was surrounded by takers who did not believe in a mutual exchange of energy. So if I was going to get better, if I was going to get that happy heart, what was I going to strip out of my life?

 

to it into alignment, to listen to my gut instinct, to shut my business, to say no to the multi-million dollar offers to buy my tour star, and to actually go, well, I deserve love. So part five of my story was fast-tracked really quickly. I found my soulmate, thanks to Matthew McConaughey.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (37:00)

And it wasn’t Matthew McConaughey.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (37:02)

What’s

 

it? What husband’s name’s Craig? And I shut my business and I stepped into my power. So how do people own their story? It’s taking the time to do that, but your story’s not over once you’ve written it. So I know my story really well. I’m able to articulate it in business, in social settings, on coffee dates, everywhere. And I’m so crystal clear and I’m known for certain things.

 

Like storytelling, yeah? Coffee dating. I’m also known for my survival story. There are so many parts to it, but I know it inside out, which makes me a brilliant leader. Because I can meet anyone and I can see what is going to touch their heart and their soul and take them to the next level, because it’s likely I might have experienced something because I’m tapping into my story that relates to them.

 

Now a couple of weeks ago I went back to a place called Kamalea in Thailand, Koh Samui, and it was actually a place that I’ve now been to nine times. And believe it or not, I’m coached by this amazing Buddhist monk called Sujay. And he is, I mean, he has my heart on so many levels. And during the two weeks that I was there working on my book and what I’m going to do with my story writes,

 

I actually went back to my five point story framework because my story’s not over.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (38:27)

must agree that because this is being augmented all the time.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (38:32)

So leaders listening right now, lead through the power of your story. But don’t just put it there and go, I launched Sara. That was such a long time ago, Di. People always ask me about it. But that’s not my story anymore. My story is like who we are here. so don’t forget that you walking, talking encyclopedia, who is a female leader.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (38:53)

So keep writing.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (38:58)

who can create and deliver impact around the world, but you can never do that if you don’t own the power of who you are.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (39:05)

I was asked the other day how people would describe me when they first meet me and potentially it’s aloof or distant. And there is something in, and I suggest even in your own story with Tour Star, you were successful and people put you at a distance on a pedestal unattainable. But once you started to share your story, you’ve humanised

 

the individual and now people want to engage and reach out. And ⁓ I’m finding that in releasing these drip feeds in my story and there’s much more to come. Not all of it’s probably fit for publishing, but there’s a lot more to come. But in humanising the name and revealing something about yourself, people want to engage because you’ve humanised the brand.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (40:00)

Of

 

course. I’ll give you a really good example. When I had that near-death experience back in 2013, there was only one photo of me that was actually taken by an ex-boyfriend at the time. And his dad actually saved my life before I got to the hospital. So I will always be very grateful for that. But I never wanted to share that picture. And so…

 

many media publications when I started sharing the power of my story would say to me, you have a photo? And I’d say, no, I don’t have one.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (40:31)

Knowing full well that you did.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (40:33)

I had a double chin in the photo. I thought to myself, and I was like carrying extra weight, which actually, by the way, saved my life because losing eight kilos in days. I needed the fat, right? So I look at it all now and I can see why ⁓ that was a positive. But I just thought I can’t share a photo of me with a double chin. Then when I was going through what was happening with My Legacy My Way and the family dynamics that came after my father died, when I was actually given permission,

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (40:43)

something in

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (41:03)

to actually share the truth of my background and my story, which will obviously come out next year, I thought to myself, Tory, honestly, get out of your own way. Who cares that you have a double chin? And so I decided to post it on LinkedIn. And it’s now had almost 60,000 impressions. There’s over 270 women and men from around the world actually sharing their own stories of burnout.

 

But what I did with that story, and I think this is really important when you do share parts of your story that are real and raw, you have to be authentic. So I said I didn’t want to post this because I had a double chin. Now in the comments, people are like, but I love your double chin and I’ve got a double chin and this is what happened to me. I thought this is earlier. But I also, when you share a personal story, I always include three

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (41:52)

My tonight party!

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (42:01)

leadership lessons. So I said, what you may not know is at the time I had this top agency, these were my clients, these were the brands, these were the results that I was living and breathing and investing all my time in. I was also a single mom in the family law court system. And I was really in the battle of my life. So I was going back to that five point story and I was setting up the hero’s journey

 

so that it would actually land in people’s hearts so that they could actually take affirmative action. That’s what leaders do, right? But then the three takeaways I said, and what you may not know is while I was lying in this hospital bed in the ICU afterwards, is that three men did these three separate things to me. Number one, my data access, my financial records without my permission, which is illegal in Australia.

 

Number two, the man who saved my life asked me for $6,000 to pay off his credit card. And number three, the father of my child sent me a text saying, I thought I’d see you’re a bit sure in the city morning, Harold. So I am at my most vulnerable. The battle of my life and these three men kept going and no one knew. So when you’re giving your story to the world,

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (43:07)

And they can’t go.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (43:20)

Give it with intent. And my intent was to show, sure, I’ve worked with all of these incredible people around the world, but I’m human just like you.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (43:29)

And shit has happened. Shit.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (43:31)

has gone down. But guess what? Through that shit has come the greatest gifts of my life. And when I look at those three men, actually said in that post, thank them.

 

That was like I thanked them and I still am grateful for them doing what they did because I would not be here today on your podcast if they didn’t.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (43:53)

And that is a little like my story, Tory, with the alopecia journey where I lost all my hair and the cruelness of, ⁓ and I referenced it in some of my storytelling of my then line manager, when on the one day I rang in and said, I can’t do this because I looked, I felt like I looked like a freak show with a few strands of hair left. And instead of saying, take the time you need, he said, why?

 

Aren’t you coping? Which nearly drove me off the edge. But it was the absolute anger out of not letting somebody else define where I was at that I pulled myself back and found some purpose in the whole thing, similarly. And isn’t it interesting what nearly kills us makes us stronger literally.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (44:26)

Of course.

 

does. Literally. want to share what Sujay said to me a couple of weeks ago because I was coaching a few women in a group the other day and I remember Sujay saying to me with everything that I’d been through this year, I was still showing up on LinkedIn. So the first thing he said to me is, he said, we’ve all been following your journey and we’re so inspired. And I said, thank you. But why? And he said, you always show up. And I said, but Sujay, this is what’s really happening behind the scenes.

 

And he said, oh my gosh. And he’s known me for a very long time and helped me through some of the darkest times of my life. And he started by saying what I’d been through was a nine out of 10. And when we finished, it was a 9.75 out of 10. And I thought, oh my gosh, but what is the key learning here? And he said, Tory, you need to learn to get angry. And I said, I’m not angry. I’m disappointed. I’m disappointed that humans behave like this.

 

And then a couple of days later, something came through where I had to prove my value.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (45:49)

you stop for a second? A Buddhist monk saying you need to get angry. Now, because they probably normally say to me you need to temper the anger.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (45:54)

I’ll explain.

 

Yeah, no. He said to me, ⁓ anger is confidence and confidence is going to fuel the legacy that is going to transform your story into helping millions of people, Tory, and I you to get angry. ⁓

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (46:13)

I just kept saying to you, I’m disappointed.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (46:15)

But

 

then something came through where I was asked to prove my value of something that I contributed hundreds of thousands of dollars to. made me angry because I thought, how am I supposed to explain that this is my contribution? is just not okay with me. And I went back in and I sat on his chair and I said, I’m angry. And he said,

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (46:26)

make you angry?

 

She can’t

 

Hallelujah

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (46:44)

Yeah,

 

he said, good. He said that is the confidence that is going to carry you forward. ⁓ Anger is confidence.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (46:53)

How do women build networks that empower them and know that they’re in a safe space and who they’re surrounded by?

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (47:01)

So number one, you’ve got to go back to your story, which is what we’ve just talked about. Because why would people connect with you if they don’t know who you are? How are they going to know that your values are aligned? How are they going to know that what you’ve experienced in business or life is a match for where they’re at? Because networking is about a mutual exchange of energy. It’s not about, ⁓ I want you to do this for me, but I’m not going to give you anything in return.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (47:25)

And we’ve all experienced those people, we still do.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (47:28)

Correct, it’s not life, it’s not life. networking for me started with that $2 coffee date philosophy. And I’ve been doing this for 25 years now.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (47:38)

5

 

euro in Paris, but that’s okay.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (47:40)

It’s okay, that’s wild, right? Wait until you come to Riyadh and visit us, the Evian is $40. $40 in a nice restaurant for Evian Water, because it’s like their wine. So here you go. But going back to networking, at a young age, I recognized the value of helping others without asking for anything in exchange. And so all my life, I’ve had three coffee dates a week.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (47:48)

He

 

⁓ my god.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (48:10)

One with someone I know, one with someone I want to partner with, and one with someone completely outside my comfort zone, which is how I’ve landed the biggest opportunities of my life. Because what I’m doing is I’m placing my energy, my story, and what I can give to others, asking nothing in return into the energy and the aura of others. It’s magnetic. It is magnetic. And so it’s very rare that I get ghosted.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (48:29)

But it’s a very clever BD strike.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (48:41)

The last person that ghosted me was my sister. It wasn’t a business person. She ghosted me when I’m like, how did our father die? Refused to tell me. Still to this day, refused to tell me. So I’m okay being ghosted by people like that. It doesn’t bother me. ⁓ But I also think that when you understand the power of your story, you can connect with anyone in the world. You can walk into any room anywhere in the world and people will say yes. And I will tell you this one thing about networking. LinkedIn is your best friend.

 

I agree with over a billion impressions per month. The most extraordinary opportunities landed my DMs every single week. Every single week. I am so thankful. So Yeah, we did. Because I saw what you were doing. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I want to know this woman. And you were like, me too. And so I wanted to know you because I could see what you were doing with the podcast. Yeah. And I could see the kinds of questions, the type of women you’re attracting. And I was like, this is someone I’d like in my orbit.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (49:39)

Hmm.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (49:39)

But it’s very rare for me to reach out like that. takes a special woman and you are one of those. thank you. It does. Thank you. But put that in other people’s shoes as well. Yeah. Think about when people that are working in a high vibration want to have something to do with you. about.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (49:57)

How do I be accessible?

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (49:59)

How do I be of service? How can I help them?

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (50:04)

Now that ⁓ is a really interesting thing because coming up ⁓ on Two Weeks Time is an episode with Maddie Dijkveld. Now Maddie is one of the top ten futurists in the world and specialises in ageing along with her husband and ageless ageing. She’s mid-70s, looks younger than me and it’s not through

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (50:19)

incredible

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (50:33)

potions or surgery, it’s through a life ⁓ well lived and lived with purpose. But when I reached Aunt Maddie, who I also engaged with through LinkedIn, she said, absolutely, I’m there. And when we did and we prerecorded because we don’t do this show live as much as we like to, but we don’t. But I said to her, are you comfortable

 

with the line of questions that we’re going to cover off today. And she said, I’m here to service what you need. Of course. And I nearly fell off my chair.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (51:11)

Yeah. But why would you say yes to a podcast if you’re not going to share what you know? Yeah. But that is the only reason.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (51:17)

It was so like, and I’m in awe of this woman and it’s like.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (51:23)

She’s a high vibrational woman. And you know, high vibrational women know that the more you share, the more you receive. And so there’s this thing, and we did touch on it earlier about the sisterhood and people not wanting to share because they’re afraid that someone’s going to take a slice of their pie. That’s actually not true. The more you give without any expectation in return, the more you receive back. And the more you can then reinvest in other people.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (51:32)

Absolutely.

 

Mmm.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (51:52)

and create a ripple effect. So anyone wanting to go on your podcast and they’re listening to this and they’re thinking, I want to be a leader, having conversation with Dai, my question to them is, what are you giving? And do you understand Dai’s audience? Is it an energetic match? Because you don’t go on a podcast unless you know that that audience is going to receive something from you. Because energy is time and time is money. ⁓

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (52:18)

Absolutely.

 

Absolutely. And that has been a learning curve, Tory, without question, because unfortunately not everybody thinks that way, but we are getting better at identifying that. So tell me, you’re living really in a global sense. You’re based in Riyadh, but you’re between the US, Riyadh and Australia. Spending time in…

 

in those different regions. What is different and what is similar in the women that you are meeting across those three regions?

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (52:52)

Women want to have a voice no matter where they are in the world. I mean that’s the biggest driver and it also gives me the greatest happiness to know that because I can contribute to them having a voice. That’s really important to me. ⁓ Look, we’re talking about coffee dates. In Riyadh in Saudi Arabia a lot of people have cake dates. Cake dates. ⁓

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (52:55)

Hmm.

 

I saw you write about them.

 

sugar-free

 

world that’s not going to work.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (53:22)

They do have some sugar-free cakes over there well. ⁓ for them, it is around the art of conversation. They’ll have coffee dates up until 3 a.m. in the morning because it’s a big coffee culture. So I love being in Riyadh because there are some, what I would call, some exceptional leaders over there that understand that it’s the art of conversation. How can we help each other? And most importantly, they’re saying to me, Tory, how can we have a voice around the world and how can you help us get it? So happy to be a part of that equation.

 

⁓ In LA, look, people don’t dress up. Like I said, I met Shelly when we were both in workout outfits.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (53:58)

Well, I don’t think they do here now. COVID was the tipping point.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (54:02)

Yeah, and I find in LA as well people don’t drink, which is fantastic. love so coffee dating or tea dating, you know, that’s definitely the way to go to connect. They’re definitely time poor because it takes so long to get between places. So you really want to be somewhere or be at a point where you meet someone and they just invite you into their home. You always know when someone invites you into their home in LA that…

 

Genuine. is going to happen and that’s happened to me a lot of times. Yeah. This past year and I’ve been greatly appreciated of that. Yeah. ⁓ Then Australia. Look, we are massive drinking culture and being in different… clearly because in Saudi we drink no alcohol. Yeah. And your mindset is so clear and you can go…

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (54:44)

You can see that by contrast.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (54:55)

and really use that mindset for the greater good. Whereas I find it this time of year and even going into the new year when this podcast comes out. pace yourself. If you don’t pace yourself and hit pause and give back to yourself, you will burn out. I’ll tell you one thing, when I’ve arrived back in Chichester, everyone’s like, can we have a drink with you? And I’m like, I’m not drinking. And then I’ll only coffee date before 11 o’clock because I don’t like being wired after then. So I’m quite happy to have a tea date.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (55:08)

without question.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (55:24)

Or I’ll say, come for a walk and talk. I need to get my body moving. So the way people network in different parts of the world can go anything from a cake to a home networking experience with, and normally their assistant will take notes while you’re in the meeting with them in their home. And then everything just gets fast tracked or they’ll be on WhatsApp connecting you to all the moves and shakers and this is what needs to happen. And then you will do that for them.

 

⁓ But I think in Australia we all need to pause.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (55:55)

And I think we also, I mean, I know I had five, I got back from Sydney last week and I’d had five events. Now five nights out knocks most people off their perch. But the difference was I only drank at one of those events and not a lot. just had one or two glasses. And you wake up completely refreshed. in Australia, unfortunately, it takes confidence to say, thank you, but I don’t drink. Could I just have a sparkling water or?

 

whatever it may be and people still look at you and there’s a judgement in that, I don’t care. But we need to get on board with this idea and as I learnt from talking with Maddy Dijkveld and ⁓ I suggest you listen to that episode coming up in a couple of weeks time, unfortunately we now know there is no good amount of alcohol.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (56:50)

No, that’s not. all bad. It’s terrible. So I was lucky enough many years ago to work with a man called Ben Branson and he created Seedlip, which was the first non-alcoholic drink in the world. I, when I always had these international guests,

 

instead of having a driver drive them around, I would always drive them around because I always knew that the conversations would be so dynamic. I remember we were driving to one of the media interviews together and we going through the city and I said, did all of this start? And I mean, he had some wild times, know, some incredible stories with Kate Moss and, know, that whole hard partying time.

 

you know, in London during those wild years and I understood it and he just said to me, my life had to stop. I had to hit pause. But he said, but he said to me, I created this drink so people would think that I was drinking a gin and tonic. People would think that I was drinking a dirty martini. And he was very clever with his marketing because he went to all of the Michelin star restaurants around the world.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (57:40)

who killed himself.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (57:58)

And he said to them, I want to create a difference in the world. Can we create bespoke cocktails with my product and serve them to your clients and see if they can notice a difference? And a lot of them didn’t. And that’s how it started. And I think the business ended up selling for close to a billion to GRGO. But the words of wisdom from him, and I really want everyone to take that forward is,

 

that if you’re afraid of judgement, just order it. I mean, there’s so many non-alcoholic drinks out there. No one knows it differently.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (58:31)

I know, I know and I discovered that in the events of last week. Tory, such a generous conversation. I’ve got a couple of rapid fire questions to wrap up. We could. A moment that changed everything for you.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (58:45)

We need you.

 

Mind Age Eth Experience.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (58:52)

The most underrated skill for women in leadership. A belief you had to let go of to rise. A daily ritual you never skip.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (58:56)

self-belief.

 

People-pleasing?

 

my morning shower ritual and my evening shower ritual which ends with gratitude.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (59:09)

one message you want every woman to hear today.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (59:13)

You are enough. That’s very powerful word.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (59:18)

There we have it. There

 

we have it. So when’s the book out, the new book and all of this exciting stuff that’s going on?

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (59:26)

So we can’t actually put a date on that right now. Okay, it’s coming. we are in negotiation phase and I always say that it’s about the right partners. Yep. And we are speaking to several people, but it needs to be an energy match. Yes. And I don’t want anyone to butcher my story, my truth, my authenticity for clickbait or dollars. It’s not about that. The reason why I’m sharing it is to create a legacy.

 

and an impact and an opportunity for others to view challenges as opportunities.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (59:58)

Brilliant.

 

So if somebody wants to engage your services like I did, how do they find you, Tory?

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (1:00:06)

powerful-steps.com or DM me on LinkedIn. Tory Archibald. Like I’m on LinkedIn. I answer. I am not a bot. I turn up for half an hour religiously every single day on LinkedIn. There we go. And I like comment and engage with people. Yeah. Yeah. But don’t spam me and sell me something because that’s just not for me.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (1:00:27)

I’ve had enough of SEO spamming. ⁓

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (1:00:30)

don’t get it anymore because I think I’m so brutal with archive delete box. It doesn’t come. I’ve got the aura.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (1:00:36)

that it just doesn’t come in.

 

Brilliant. Well, Tory’s joined us from Riyadh and I’m sure she’ll be heading back there in not too distant future. But what a fantastic way to start 2026 with such an insightful, impactful and powerful conversation. Thank you, Tory. Lovely to have you in the studio. It’s been an absolute pleasure.

 

TORY ARCHBOLD [Guest] (1:01:03)

Thank you. I just for you and your listeners, the impact that you are creating with what you have actually put forward to the universe to uplift other women and to teach them new skills and to teach them to get out of their own way is extraordinary. And I just want to take a moment to say thank you for doing that because I would not have hopped on a 6am flight to be here if I didn’t believe in the power of what you have created. And I say that

 

authentically and genuinely and be proud and go forward and conquer because this is just the start of something special. you.

 

DI GILLETT [Host] (1:01:41)

Thank you so much.

 

We’ll see you again next week.

Chapters:

00:00 The Power of Storytelling in Leadership

04:05 Defining Moments and Self-Belief

10:10 Navigating Rejection and Building a Brand

17:48 Walking Away at the Peak: Intuition and Legacy

24:52 Authenticity in Corporate Leadership

29:03 Elevating Your Voice and Empowering Networks

31:34 Owning Your Narrative

39:05 The Power of Storytelling

47:01 Building Empowering Networks

55:51 Cultural Differences in Networking

58:50 Final Thoughts and Reflections

 

Connect with Di:

Connect with Di on LinkedIn

Follow Power Of Women on LinkedIn

Follow Di on Instagram

The Power Of Women Podcast Instagram

Contact Di

 

Find Tory Archbold at:

Website https://powerful-steps.com/

LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/tory-archbold-b8542715/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/toryarchboldofficial

 

This is the home of unapologetic conversations and powerful stories of reinvention. New episodes drop every Monday to fuel your week with insights on leadership, resilience, and success. Subscribe and join a community of women who are changing the game.

Want more fearless, unfiltered stories?

💫 Subscribe to the Power Of Women Podcast on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts

Your ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify keeps these stories alive.

 

📩 Sign up for our newsletter where I share raw reflections and thought leadership on the Power Of Reinvention.

 

Disclaimer:  https://powerofwomen.com.au/podcast-disclaimer/

Starting Over in Midlife: What’s Holding You Back?

Starting Over in Midlife: What’s Holding You Back?

Midlife isn’t a crisis — it’s an invitation.

So what’s holding you back?

In this episode of the Power Of Women Podcast, host Di Gillett sits down with Maz O’Connor, a woman who made the bold decision to sell everything in Australia and start a new life overseas. First in Bali and now India…in her 50’s. Her story is a reminder that reinvention isn’t about discarding who we’ve been. It’s about carrying our courage, resilience and experience into the next chapter.

You’ll hear:

  • Why midlife reinvention is about conviction, not crisis
  • How courage and clarity fuel personal growth after 50
  • Why financial independence is the foundation of women’s empowerment.

 

Key takeaways :

  • Start small: reinvention doesn’t have to mean selling everything.
  • Back yourself, especially when no one else is.
  • Create a strategy before you leap.
  • Surround yourself with women who’ve walked the path before you.
  • Courage as a quiet force that fuels big life shifts.

 

Maz said:

“Courage is that quiet voice that whispers—and that we ignore. But when we find stillness and finally listen, it gets louder.”

“I took a massive step and sold everything. It doesn’t have to be that big, but it does have to be intentional.”

“Reinvention isn’t about starting from scratch. It’s about starting with you.”

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

14:53 Midlife Reinvention: Embracing Change

27:00 Empowering Women in Their Third Act

28:06 Mindset and Career Paths

29:35 Empowering Women Through Business

30:33 Navigating Ageism and Embracing Technology

33:45 Innovations in Wellness and AI

37:33 Living Intentionally and Building a Legacy

44:28 Courage and Reinvention in Midlife

51:08 Overcoming Fear and Building Financial Independence

 

Connect with Di:

Connect with Di on LinkedIn

Follow Power Of Women on LinkedIn

Follow Di on Instagram

The Power Of Women Podcast Instagram

Contact Di

 

Find Maz O’Connor at:

LinkedIn

Instagram

 

This is the home of unapologetic conversations and powerful stories of reinvention. New episodes drop every Monday to fuel your week with insights on leadership, resilience, and success. Subscribe and join a community of women who are changing the game.

Want more fearless, unfiltered stories?

 

💫 Subscribe to the Power Of Women Podcast on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts

Your ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify keeps these stories alive.

 

📩 Sign up for our newsletter where I share raw reflections and thought leadership on the Power Of Reinvention.

 

Disclaimer:  https://powerofwomen.com.au/podcast-disclaimer/

Your Midlife Awakening: Reclaim Pleasure, Presence & Personal Power

Your Midlife Awakening: Reclaim Pleasure, Presence & Personal Power

Midlife doesn’t have to mean burnout, invisibility, or emotional exhaustion. It can be the moment you reclaim every part of yourself you’ve outgrown, out-performed, or tucked away.

This is your midlife awakening. Your opportunity to reclaim pleasure, presence & personal power.

In this powerful Power Of Women Podcast conversation, I’m joined by Natty Frasca, Pleasure Coach and founder of The Feminine Rebellion. Together we explore why so many high-achieving women feel unfulfilled despite “having it all,” and why the key to reinvention lies in reconnecting with pleasure, presence, and feminine power.

From the neuroscience of pleasure to the freedom that comes with aging, Natty reveals why visibility is an act of rebellion, and how every woman can walk into any room with grounded, magnetic confidence.

If you’ve ever felt disconnected, numb, or pressured to keep holding everything together, this conversation is your reminder: midlife isn’t your crisis. It’s your awakening.

 

In this episode, you’ll hear:

  • Why pleasure is a pathway back to yourself
  • Why aging brings wisdom, boundaries, and freedom
  • How visibility transforms a woman’s sense of power

Natty said:

“Aging is our superpower.”

“Stop apologising for wanting more.”

“The most powerful thing a midlife woman can do is trust herself so fiercely she stops waiting for permission.”

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

00:00 Introduction to Nattie Frasca and Her Mission

03:10 The Journey of Self-Discovery and Reclaiming Pleasure

06:13 The Common Struggles of High-Achieving Women

09:11 The Importance of Honesty and Vulnerability

12:13 Understanding Pleasure and Its Role in Life

15:11 Redefining Aging and Embracing Wisdom

18:04 Visibility and Owning Your Space

21:06 Empowering Women to Break Societal Norms

24:19 Final Thoughts and Call to Action

 

Connect with Di:

Connect with Di on LinkedIn

Follow Power Of Women on LinkedIn

Follow Di on Instagram

The Power Of Women Podcast Instagram

Contact Di

 

Find Natty Frasca at:

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/thefemininerebellion/

Website https://thefemininerebellion.com/

 

This is the home of unapologetic conversations and powerful stories of reinvention. New episodes drop every Monday to fuel your week with insights on leadership, resilience, and success. Subscribe and join a community of women who are changing the game.

Want more fearless, unfiltered stories?

✨ Subscribe to the Power Of Women Podcast on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts

Your ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify keeps these stories alive.

 

📩 Sign up for our newsletter where I share raw reflections and thought leadership on the Power Of Reinvention.

 

Disclaimer:  https://powerofwomen.com.au/podcast-disclaimer/

The 3 Thoughts That Keep You Invisible

The 3 Thoughts That Keep You Invisible

In this episode of the Power Of Women Podcast, Carlii Lyon joins Di Gillett to discuss her book Courage to Be – Small Steps for a Big Life, and to explore what it really takes to put yourself out there and the 3 thoughts that keep you invisible.

Former international publicist Carlii Lyon spent years building other people’s brands, from supermodel Miranda Kerr to global icons before realising she had become invisible herself.

Carlii unpacks these three universal thoughts that hold people back, how Future Self Psychology helps you act for the person you’re becoming, and why intuition might just be your most underrated leadership skill.

You’ll Hear:

  • The three universal thoughts that hold people back from visibility
  • How to build a purpose-driven personal brand using the four P’s: Promise, Packaging, Position, Promotion
  • The difference between positional influence and personal influence
  • Why “we” language often keeps women small
  • How to start before you’re ready and why intuition is your edge.

Key learnings:

  • Visibility is not vanity – it’s vitality
  • Start before you’re ready – there’s magic in action
  • Intuition is your inner intelligence – create quiet to hear it
  • Think of your career as a brand partnership with the organisation you represent.

Carlii said:

“When we have the courage to be seen, heard and known, we attract the right people, places and opportunities into our lives.”

“Most people think if their work’s good enough, it will be seen. It won’t – you have to promote it.”

📖 Read the full transcript of this conversation here 👇

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (00:03)

Well, it’s a fear factor. Worry of how they’ll be judged. It’s, you know, there’s that idea of if I put my head, what’s the saying, if I put my head over the- the parapet. Yes, you know, I’m gonna be shot down.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (00:25)

I’m Di Gillett and welcome to the Power Of Women Podcast. And what I love about this platform is the opportunity to showcase and celebrate the strength, resilience and achievements of women from all walks of life. And this is where the real stories are told and where we remind you to never assume. We talk resilience, reinvention and breakthroughs. Those moments that often don’t make the headlines but

 

absolutely should. So join the conversation and please subscribe wherever you listen to your favourite podcasts and be part of the power of women community.

 

What does it really take to be seen? Not just for what you do, but for who you are. Today’s guest knows a thing or two about visibility and what it really takes to put yourself out there. Carlii Lyon is a former international publicist who represented some of the most recognizable names in the world. From supermodel Miranda Kerr to bestselling authors,

 

and global brands like Microsoft and Volvo. Carlii has also just released her book, Courage to Be, the ultimate guide for anyone to step out from behind the scenes, embrace visibility, and live a bigger life. Carlii Lyon, welcome to the Power Of Women Podcast.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (01:57)

Thank you so much, Di. What a beautiful introduction. Thank you.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (02:02)

You’re most welcome. Carlii, you have so eloquently described yourself as a high school dropout who started her PR agency at 21, which at that point is such a brave move. How did you start your business from that base and how did you build this incredible client base?

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (02:26)

Yeah, well from dropping out of school or being politely asked to leave at 15. At 15? At 15, yeah. it was a school. I did everything. Everything you could consider a naughty teenager to do, I ticked it off the list. Like I was a high achiever.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (02:40)

KARA.

 

You look like the picture of angelic behaviour.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (02:56)

⁓ thank you. Well, I hope my teenage boys believe that as well, but I promise I wasn’t at that point. So from 15 to 21, when you think of it, that’s a seven year gap of being out in the world. And my dad said to me when I left school, he said, well, if you’re not going back to school, you have to work. And the next day I…

 

started an apprenticeship as a hairdresser because I was determined not to go back to school. So I did go out into the world of work for quite a while as a hairdresser and I did waitressing and all of those wonderful things that you tend to do, you know, as you’re deciding what you want to do as a grownup. So that was a long time out in the world working. So it definitely wasn’t

 

You know, I see 21 year olds today that are coming straight out of uni and the idea of starting a business straight out of uni whilst there are definitely some that are brave enough to do that. I feel like because I had seven years out in the world, it made it a lot easier. It’s, it is a runway. It is a runway. And I always looked older than I was. Which made it. No, no, no.

 

Thank you. take that as a compliment. But in terms of how did I launch the business, I’ll give you a real abridged version. I had a gentleman who’s still my mentor today say to me, Kali, I think you’d be good in PR. And just based off that one comment, I did go and enroll to study PR and six months

 

into my study, I naively perhaps or bravely thought I can do better than even what my teachers sound like they’re doing because they didn’t really they weren’t very engaged or they didn’t seem that excited. And so I just went out and started building a clientele base. And before I even finished that diploma, I had my business.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (05:12)

Wow. There you go. So yeah, I gotta say some of that naughty teenager had some real spice and some kick behind it. So well done.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (05:15)

Yeah, I was determined.

 

Absolutely. I think there is definitely a place in the world for a rebellious streak and not waiting, starting before you’re ready, doing the things that people tell you you can’t do. And I will also add at that point, I did have a big motivation to get out into the world and share the message of wellness because I had gone through my own personal transformation of

 

going from being a party girl and a rebel with no cause and doing lots of destructive things to being an aspiring health and wellness guru after I spent two months at a health retreat. So I did also have this real passion and fire to get that message out there. And I think when you have that passion, fire,

 

and you’re willing to just do whatever it takes. There’s real magic in that.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (06:40)

Mm-hmm. what you’re talking about and what you’re specializing in now, but you established a reputation as a PR professional for building other brands.

 

before realising that you yourself were becoming invisible, something that has been put to me of late, I’m very interested in this one. I love talking about reinvention. Tell me about yours, because how did you realise that that was not working and you were disappearing as others were coming forward?

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (07:19)

I didn’t realize how invisible I was or had become until I went on extended maternity leave. So I was out in the world, as you said, building other people’s brands for well over a decade and doing so many amazing things all over the world for these amazing people. Then I went on extended maternity leave and I went from having this global PR fast paced career.

 

to being at home with two babies under two, two beautiful boys under two. And I was so happy and felt incredibly privileged that I was able to do that. And it wasn’t until the end of that where my boys started to go back to, or started daycare, excuse me, and I started contemplating, okay, so what is my next step going to be?

 

It was at that junction where I thought, my God, really, through all of those years, I didn’t necessarily really nurture my, my network. I definitely hadn’t put myself out there in any constructive way. I even reflected on moments where I had been approached by the media, being this young woman in business, representing these amazing people.

 

Asked to be interviewed myself and I remember distinctly calling one of my clients and saying, I’ve been approached by this magazine, which by the way, media doesn’t generally reach out to you. You have to be the one reaching, which I think is an important point to make. And I called my client and said, do you, do you think I should do it? Do you mind if I do it? Like I was asking permission and almost validation from my clients. So.

 

That was the moment for me, Di, that I was like, my God, what am I, what was I waiting for? What held me back? Why didn’t I do that when I was clearly doing it for everyone else? What was it that I felt it wasn’t relevant to me? And in that moment, I just, suppose I realized, if I was thinking like that,

 

then I imagine a lot of people out in the world are feeling exactly the same way.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (09:48)

So there’s a difference between visibility and currency. market, the market was saying you had currency because they, they were coming to you wanting to be interviewed, but you, you were challenging the personal visibility piece of stepping forward yourself instead of putting one of your brands out front and you do the behind the, behind the scenes work. Am I right in qualifying? Yeah.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (10:17)

Yeah, absolutely. Look, I always put it in the terms of I had a lot of positional influence. So just by proximity of working with the clients that I was working with, I had positional influence. And if I’m really honest, that did go to my head and it was a false economy because I thought, well, I’m influential because

 

I was getting all of the benefits of representing influential clients and how that shows up today for a lot of my clients that I’m working with who are not necessarily high profile. They’re not in that world of talent and entertainment. They’re executives. Yeah. But how that shows up for them, they’re working for some of the biggest brands in the world. And so they also have a lot of positional influence when they walk into boardrooms.

 

They’re bolstered up by the fact that they’re representing these huge brands. They are also operating in a false economy because it only takes for you to step out of that, which I did in maternity leave to go, ⁓ that was all based on my position. It wasn’t personal influence.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (11:31)

Yeah.

 

Yeah. And it’s interesting because I often have the dialogue in individuals working in the consulting world who build their own portfolio, but under the auspices of a big brand. The biggest issue for those big brands is when those individuals become a brand within themselves, their organization. And then, you know, the

 

big banner over the door has to ask who’s walking through the door, the brand that they work for or brand personal brand. And that’s brilliant for the individual, but not necessarily brilliant for the organization who employs you. So it can happen.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (12:17)

Mmm.

 

Yeah, I think that’s a really fair statement. And I have definitely heard of cases where there is that sense of confusion where there’s an individual who’s really getting out there and doing things. And whilst they are working with a big brand, they’re becoming a brand themselves. And I understand that perhaps it’s something you need to be mindful of. But in my experience, it’s

 

Usually the opposite way is that the the individual is not doing anything and there’s it’s an anomaly for it to be the other way where the individuals doing so much that it becomes a problem. So there is obviously a need for mindfulness and understanding what’s the operating model that you’re working within you know I do know there are brands that they absolutely frown upon any form of.

 

self-promotion and personal brand. And I always say to clients and individuals, if you are going into that scenario, then you’re going into that scenario with open eyes. the ideal situation and mindset that I try to promote in the clients that I work with is I want them to start thinking of themselves as being in brand partnership.

 

with the brands they work for. So rather than it being a case of the brand, yeah, and the brands up here and I’m just this little cog in the machine. When you take that step of no, I’m in brand partnership with the brand doesn’t make you automatically the spokesperson for the brand, but it’s an energetic shift. And you start to realize that

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (13:53)

out.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (14:13)

And also start to be mindful of, how can I use this positional influence to my own benefit as well? Because you’re giving so much of your time and energy to the role, to the company. I think that’s only a fair part of the equation is what can you also leverage in, in that, in building the asset that is your personal brand? Yeah.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (14:20)

Yeah.

 

Yeah, yeah, I love that framing of it. So you also write, and I think this is a direct quote, that when you have the courage to be seen, heard and known, we attract the right people, places and opportunities into our lives. So if that be the case, why does so many women and even the most accomplished amongst us struggle with being seen?

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (15:09)

Well, it’s a fear factor. It’s a ⁓ worry of how they’ll be judged.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (15:21)

It’s… It keeps coming up.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (15:22)

Yeah.

 

It’s it’s you know there’s that idea of if I put my head what’s the saying if I put my head over the. Yes, you know I’m going to be shot down.

 

Yeah, there, if we’re speaking specifically about women, there is this, they tend to be the ones who are more collaborative. And even I’ve seen, even just recently, what comes to mind is I was, I had the privilege of sitting in, in a boardroom session where there were a group of emerging leaders.

 

presenting to a group of senior leaders and their opportunity was presented to them to have a moment where they really, you know, were able to highlight their achievements and put the spotlight on what they’ve been doing. And it was a, there was a combination of male executive emerging leaders and also female. And I was sitting there quietly on the sidelines watching as this unfolded and the men got up.

 

and talked about their achievements and there was a lot of mention of I did this, my vision was this, et cetera. And then the women got up and it was, we did this, we did that. And there was no claiming their fame, no I. And I have to say when they left the room and then the senior leaders were reflecting and making their comments.

 

It does get noticed when you’re not confidently claiming your fame and owning your achievements. So whilst there might be a hesitation because, or, you know, I don’t want to be seen as the one who’s the tall poppy and I don’t want to be seen as big noting myself. There’s also negative connotations. If you are being so humble, you are coming across as being.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (17:34)

Mmm.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (17:38)

you know, more meek and that’s not impressive.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (17:41)

Yeah, it’s so true, Carlii. I told a story only recently of an organisation several decades ago where I had to go through a assessment centre to get in and there was about 30 of us in this assessment centre and at the end of the day, we’re all sitting around this massively extended boardroom table and we were given a topic and a couple of seconds to prepare and speak.

 

Hmm. 30 of us presenting and 29 of those individuals gave their presentation whilst seated in the position that they were seated at the table. I was the only one who stood up two decades or three decades ago, went and stood at the head of the table and presented with a level of authority from the head of the table.

 

and I was the only one out of 30 who got selected to join the organisation.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (18:46)

Amazing. You know that gave me goosebumps then. ⁓ really? Yeah it actually did because you know it represents something it’s so powerful and it’s so inspiring and for all the reasons why women don’t necessarily do it on the flip side of that when you do it like I’m sure

 

the 29 others, whilst there might’ve been a few that were like, God, who does she think she is? Cause there will always be a few of those. Without question, they exist everywhere. But then there would’ve been others in there that would’ve gone, wow, like I wanna be like her. I wish I did that. And you gave them permission to do that in the next opportunity. But it’s, that’s, I love that. I love that story.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (19:16)

Without qu-

 

that all I wish.

 

We will come back to that point, Carlii, because there is a risk, as to the phrase you were referencing before, putting your head up above the parapet. But we’ll come back to that, because I think that’s an important point. But let’s talk about the three universal thoughts individuals struggle with on the line to putting themselves out there. You’ve clearly…

 

defined what those three universal thoughts. Can you talk us through that? And if they hold us back either from visibility or opportunity or both.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (20:17)

Yes. So I wrote an article about these three thoughts and this article on LinkedIn went crazy viral, like crazy, crazy viral. And I always say, I believe that article went viral to the extent that it did because everyone could see themselves in these three thoughts. And the reason I wrote the article and I wanted to put these three thoughts in black and white was I

 

started coaching individuals one-on-one. I realized they were all having these same three thoughts. But even more importantly for myself and my own sense of development, I had thought that these three thoughts were personal to me, that I was the only one thinking them. And when I realized everyone was thinking them, I thought, okay, I’ve got to get these out in the world because if we know that they’re just

 

thoughts that everyone has we don’t take them so personally and we can override. The impact that these thoughts have okay so here they are. The first one is who am I to speak and this comes from a place of us being completely unable to see ourselves truly objectively and the things that we know the things that we’ve done.

 

The person that we are, we don’t necessarily value to the same extent as what we do when we look at others or we hear about what others are doing. So this, am I to speak? Everyone feels the same. And this thought is in the minds of some of the people that you would never assume. Like that have got all the.

 

accolades and all of the not accolades, excuse me, credibility is the better word, but they still think that they shouldn’t speak. The next one is I’m not saying anything new. So why would anyone care? And this is especially relevant when people start putting themselves out there and sharing their thought leadership and their stories. There’s this sense of, well, if I’m not saying anything new,

 

And groundbreaking and never heard before then it’s irrelevant no one will care and. You know if and i’m sure a lot of your listeners are avid readers if you happen to. Especially in the non-fiction realm if you happen to follow a particular topic so in my case i love researching about influence and body language and these sorts of subjects.

 

And the honest truth is, Di, everyone’s saying the same thing, but they’re just saying it slightly differently through their own tone of voice, through their stories in, you know, in their realm of experience. But they’re all saying the same thing. So if ever you’re questioning, I’m not saying anything new, so why would anyone care? I want you to think of your favourite non-fiction book.

 

And imagine, imagine if that author had have held themselves back by thinking that. Like it would, the world would miss out on that. And then the last thought is everyone will think I have a big ego. So this worry of, you know, if I put myself out there, people are going to be thinking, or who does she think she is or who does he think he is?

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (23:50)

You

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (24:01)

And yes, like we just said, those people absolutely exist in the world. But my experience tells me that those people are just so afraid of putting themselves out there that when they see someone else do it, it makes them intimidated.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (24:19)

Those points are absolutely brilliant. So I reflect back to the 30-something year old who stood up at the head of a boardroom table and landed themselves a job by being bolshe. And I don’t know whether I did that in a considered sense or it was just an innate thing that that’s what I did. And I think it’s more the latter than the former. Only very recently,

 

coming to the realization through somebody poking the bear that I needed to be more visible as a brand to promote the Power Of Women Podcast. In so doing and putting myself out there, all three of those things enter my mind at some point in time every week.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (25:10)

Yep.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (25:11)

with all the confidence in the world, I still reflect on those points.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (25:17)

Yep, they are universal. And my favorite author, Steven Pressfield, who wrote an exceptional book called The War of Art. He talks about how in the universe there is a force that he calls the resistance and the resistance exists in the universe to stop us from doing the things that we’re meant to do, from being the person that we truly in our heart and soul want to be.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (25:28)

Yes.

 

Yep.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (25:47)

And so I see these three thoughts as a form of resistance now. And when you

 

almost create a bit of distance and you can hear the thought pop up and know that it’s just resistance. It’s everyone feels like this. Every single person that you see out in the world at whatever level they’re at, they are having the same thoughts.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (26:17)

Maybe it’s a saline-relating dose so that we don’t get too gushy. Maybe.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (26:23)

Maybe. Yeah, absolutely, maybe.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (26:28)

Whether

 

it’s fully on or just slightly on.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (26:31)

Yeah, maybe it will stop us from all becoming crazy egomaniacs who think that we’re too god-like and do everything.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (26:42)

A few

 

people I could name globally who might not have these thoughts that we could run. It is, so maybe it is. So you encourage readers to embrace the life-changing magic of, of I, and it doesn’t escape my notice, Carlii, that you have two I’s in your spelling of Carlii. So my first question is, have, did you always, was that the name you were given?

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (26:47)

Maybe.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (27:12)

and the second it wasn’t you that

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (27:14)

No,

 

was not the name I was given. consulted with a… I mean, this was in my 20s. I consulted with a very well-known… I asked. Yes. I know. It’s funny, the other day I was walking with one of my closest friends, and she’s a newer friend in my life.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (27:31)

Do this.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (27:44)

She never knew that I changed my name. She was like, I never knew this. How could you know? So it’s a good pick up die. But I did, I consulted with a famous numerologist who unfortunately has passed away and he was known as a numerologist to specialize in names because in terms of the world of numerology, everything can be… ⁓

 

It can turn into a number. all of the letters. Yes. So I don’t know if you know much about numerology. When you look at your name in total. ⁓ okay. Perfect. So I had my name done and I changed. I was born with Carlii with a Y. So I did add the two, I’s and I changed my middle name and my surname.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (28:16)

Yeah.

 

and your surname. ⁓ There’s the rebellious kid coming back. How did that go down? How did mom and dad services, this is pre-marriage or post-marriage?

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (28:44)

I’m

 

This is pre-marriage.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (28:55)

How

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (28:57)

Well, Lion, so my mother’s maiden name is Lions with an S. He dropped the S because apparently that was not good for the numbers. So there was still a nod to mom and dad. My dad was upset in the beginning that I had changed, but he soon came around.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (29:02)

Yes. Yeah. Cause I was also good. Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (29:25)

Old school and he’s has an Italian background. And then what was funny is I married an Italian and even though in Italy women don’t change their names. My husband was a little bit more old school and he did want me to take his name, but I didn’t. So I know. So every time we’d go to a wedding, he’d be like, see, she took their name or blah, blah.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (29:44)

Bye!

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (29:52)

So it took him a while to get his head around it. you know, I am a personal, obviously a personal brand. I live and breathe personal branding and my name is my name. Like it’s my name, it’s my identity. So I couldn’t imagine changing it even for marriage.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (30:09)

Yeah, they go. And as I say, I’m so glad I asked you that because every time I put your name down, think must remember to ask Karla. Because the point of distinction is a powerful one. And I got married at ⁓ 40 years of age also to a European whose surname was far more renowned in the public domain than mine. But I didn’t.

 

Yeah. ⁓ Sorry.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (31:01)

Okay, perfect.

 

You can lean on it then. can use it. That’s even better. You’ve got two options now.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (31:09)

Yeah,

 

so there you go. So I’m talking with former international publicist, turned speaker and executive coach Carlii Lyon, Carlii with a double I. And coming up, we’re going to talk about putting yourself out there and trusting your intuition. If you’re loving the Power Of Women Podcast, be sure to jump on to our YouTube channel.

 

and hit that subscribe button to ensure you never miss an episode. Carlii, you talk about future self-psychology as a powerful concept based around imagining who we want to become. Could you tell us a little bit about what future self-psychology is and how we use or can use this framework to shape our personal brand?

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (32:03)

I didn’t even know that future self-psychology was actually an area of psychology and there are a few key pioneers in this space and when I first came across the research and the thinking, quite frankly, I was just blown away and it made so much intuitive sense which

 

You know, which is why you barely even really need to explain it. But in a snapshot, what future self psychology is, is using the power of perspective and even in some ways, your imagination of thinking about your future self and using that to your advantage. So I’ll give you an example. There is a gentleman by the name of

 

Hal Hirschfield, who is a professor at UCLA and he did a TED talk on this and a lot of his work centers around this idea of future self-psychology. And in his case, he’s talking about how it impacts decision-making and behavior. And what he did in one of his research studies was he got a group of students together. They were all given a digital avatar and invited to go into a virtual reality.

 

And one half of the students was given a digital avatar that looks like who they were today. And the other half of the students were given a digital avatar that was digitally enhanced to look like who they would be in 40 years time. so you see in his Ted talk, he actually shows clips of these students going into this digital realm and looking at themselves in the mirror.

 

And at the end of their journey, they had to come back, sit down and answer some questions. In this case, it was around financial decision-making. And what they found was that the individuals who went in and saw themselves effectively in 40 years time, they committed to saving, I believe it was 20 or 30 % more.

 

Then the individuals who went in and just saw themselves as who they were today and in the moment. So it’s this idea of when you truly embody the concept that your future self will be an entirely different person and that the consequences of everything you do and you don’t do in the now are going to ⁓ impact that.

 

other person, then your decision making is potentially going to be different. I certainly think better because you do realize that, okay, I’m creating that future for that person who I’m not at the moment, but that person’s going to live the results of every decision that I make. And when it comes to personal branding and making the decision of

 

putting yourself out there, building your profile. In the now, you know, it can be a hard ask because people are busy. They’re already thinking about just doing what they have to do. And then when you put it to them that, okay, on top of that, you have to go and network. You have to share your thought leadership.

 

You you

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (36:06)

I know!

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (36:14)

You know i want you to imagine you’ve been offered this amazing opportunity it’s going to give you massive visibility it’s something you’ve never done before and you’re questioning whether you should do it and in the now you’re thinking am i ready should i do this can i do this. I want you to imagine what would your future self say to you at that point when you’re making the decision and every single time it gives the audience.

 

Goosebumps because every single time it will be something so simple, but yet so profound. It’s just like, go for it. Just do it. You’ve got this. And to me, it just shows that we have this mentor in us that we can use and tap into anytime.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (37:04)

Yeah, thank you. That’s brilliant. I love that. And do you know, I’m sitting here listening to you talking about this and envisaging future self. And sometimes I have to wonder whether I’ve done a lap of the planet before because I find myself doing things innately and then I learn about what it is that I’m doing after I’ve already done it.

 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. ⁓

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (38:01)

Mmm, I love that. Yeah. Well, that’s a good thing. It’s like confirmation.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (38:07)

Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. And it’s, it’s something that leaves me feeling very positive. thank you for clarifying future self psychology. And this probably leads very much into that as a next step and intuition and I call it my inner intelligence and and and something I tap into very regularly. ⁓

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (38:16)

rhyme.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (38:35)

And I think some people, as we might suggest from the prelude to this question, ⁓ are more naturally attuned to the subtle cues. how does somebody who’s not learn to listen to their intuition and then channel it into what really matters?

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (38:55)

Hmm.

 

Intuition has been, so my goal for this year and, you know, through the process of launching my book and doing all of these effectively new things, my biggest goal was listen to my intuition, really trust my intuition and take action on my intuition. And in doing that and consciously doing that this year,

 

I can say with a sense of authority that it really comes down to practice. And in terms of how, for me, it’s sitting still, being quiet, creating those moments of calm. So even I’ve started, instead of getting in the car and automatically turning on music,

 

I don’t turn on anything. And I, for me, that’s creating a moment, almost like setting a stage for my intuition to come in. That’s been my experience that the quieter you are, the easier it is to hear that little voice. And for different people, they’re going to experience their intuition differently.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (40:09)

I like that.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (40:27)

And I would say for the people who perhaps they’re new to the idea, and I am thinking that a lot of the people that are listening are probably not so new to it because I, and this may be a grand overstatement and stereotype, but I feel like women are at being intuitive.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (40:48)

really good

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (40:52)

And we hear our intuition, we’re in touch with our intuition, but whether we act on our intuition, that’s another thing.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (41:00)

sufficiently yeah yeah

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (41:02)

Yes.

 

And perhaps it’s just in that case, the practice is not necessarily learning to hear it or learning to listen. It’s learning to just take action. So I’ve got to the point now this year because it was my goal. It was a front and center goal for me. If my intuition tells me to send an email to someone, follow up someone, go to a particular event, I’m just going.

 

Like I’m not even questioning and I have to say I’ve had some really remarkable things come through as a result of doing that.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (41:41)

Was it unnerving to start with? Did you have to step out of comfort zone or was it simply taking action?

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (41:52)

I wouldn’t say it was unnerving because it’s always been something that I’ve appreciated. I would say it was more come really actually comes back to what you just said in terms of confirmation. Like you’re doing certain things or not doing certain things. And by making it front and center, I confirmed to myself not only how important it is.

 

to listen and take action, even when it doesn’t make sense. But I also confirmed to myself how sometimes I really wasn’t listening and I was not trusting it.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (42:35)

Yeah, great. So are you going to say something else then, Carlii?

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (42:41)

No, I was just going to say how this and why I put this in the book was when it comes to personal branding. I think having that close connection with your intuition is so important because what I find is a lot of the time when someone first starts to put themselves out there and perhaps this this even mirrors how we develop as beings as humans.

 

In the beginning, we’re really looking around us to see what is everyone else doing and what can I mimic and how can I imitate and, and, and maybe that’s natural because then we go through our teenage years and we go, okay, I take this, I take this and I’ll change this. But when it comes to personal branding and putting ourselves out there in the beginning, it’s really tempting to just go, ⁓ but that’s how they’re doing it. So I’m going to do it like that. Or, you know, I want to do this, but maybe that’s wrong.

 

because no one else is doing it. And that’s where I think intuition plays such a dramatic role in just trusting that experiment with that, you know, maybe put something out there.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (43:55)

situation tells me where that white space is is where you should go. Yes. ⁓

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (44:00)

Exactly. That might be your edge. by doing when, you know, when everyone’s zigging and your intuition is saying you should zag, it’s probably great advice.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (44:12)

Yeah, yeah, I love it. Well, Carlii, finally for the woman today thinking about stepping forward and they’ve got some hesitation around that. What does putting yourself out there with purpose really look like in everyday life? Is there an example that you could play out for us?

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (44:35)

Yes, absolutely. Whenever you start to contemplate what you want your personal brand to be and how you want to shape your personal brand, a lot of clues in how to do that can actually be borrowed by some of the biggest brands in the world. And you can really lean on some traditional frameworks of brand marketing in

 

My case or what I speak about often is the four P’s. So the four P’s, are definitely for anyone in marketing, they’ll be familiar with the four P’s or this version of them is promise, packaging, position and promotion. So even if you sat down with a blank piece of paper and you put four circles on the page and you have promise, packaging, position, promotion.

 

promise is, what do you stand for? What do you want to be known for? How do you want to be remembered? And the really simple way of getting to that is, what are perhaps three words, ideas or phrases that you want people to automatically associate with you? That’s your promise. That’s the thing that you want people to automatically think of when they think of you. Once you’ve got that promise,

 

You can then shape and color the other parts of the puzzle. So you’ve got your packaging. Your packaging is not only how do you package yourself in person, so your styling, you know, your styling decisions, but also how you’re packaging yourself online. That’s your social media. So it’s really looking at every touch point, how am I packaging myself and what am I signaling?

 

in doing so, how am I dressing? What colors am I using? What words, phrases? So that’s your packaging. Your positioning, when you think of positioning in the world of brand marketing, we know that brands make sure that their products are on the right shelf in the right place because it will have a huge impact on how a customer receives and relates to that product. The same thing is for an individual.

 

Your positioning is not only potentially where you work or what industry you play in. Your positioning is what events are you going to? ⁓ If you are a thought leader, well, what platforms are you using? This is all shaping how people see you and what they associate with you. And then the last piece of the puzzle, which I think is the most important, is promotion.

 

Most people fall into the trap of thinking, if my work’s good enough, people will see it and that will be the end of the story. But we know in brand marketing, the biggest brands in the world are the biggest promoters in the world. They’re the biggest advertisers. Why? Because they know they have to stay top of mind. They have to stay relevant. They know that people’s attention spans are short. They know that they have to constantly

 

be reminding them of the brand. The same thing applies to our personal brands and not making the assumption that everyone’s thinking about you. Everyone sees you. Everyone knows what you’re doing because they don’t and psychology supports that statement. So I would start with that blank piece of paper. What are your four P’s and just look at, look at that as a starting point.

 

because that might shift your

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (48:26)

Masterclass. Yep. Thank you. And I, I personally have learned a lot, crossed a few things off and validated a few things that I’m doing just through the course of reflecting on exactly, exactly what you’ve said. they’re absolutely powerful points, Carlii. So, so thank you so much. Carlii, what a brilliant

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (48:44)

Amazing.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (48:52)

episode today and it will be one of our closing episodes of the year. So I think what I would ask anybody listening to this is to play this over a couple of times. Take down the point. This is a bit of a masterclass over your Christmas break if you’re going to give yourself one to stop and reflect about how you are managing

 

yourself as a brand, whether it be that you want to step forward into your own business, you want to elevate yourself within the organisation with which you are, or you might be pursuing some purpose-led perspective that you’re embracing as a next stage in your career or your life. So Carlii, thank you so very much for that. And your book Courage To Be is out on the shelves now.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (49:52)

It is, thank you. Very exciting. And I just want to say, Di, thank you so much for having me and thank you for putting yourself out there in what you’re doing. And as you mentioned, how much work goes into even this podcast and each podcast episode. I know that you’re doing it for a very big purpose and that every woman who listens to it.

 

is benefiting from that. So thank you for allowing me to play a small part.

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (50:24)

Thank you, Carlii. That endorsement means a lot and it makes me feel a little bit emotional. So thank you. Thank you so much. Please be sure to jump on to the show notes and there you’ll find where to find Carlii if you’d like to pursue a direct conversation. And I know you show up as I do quite regularly on LinkedIn where we’re LinkedIn fiends. That’s a really good spot.

 

to find either of us. Carlii, just for ⁓ edification, your website is…

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (51:04)

CarliiLyon.com

 

DI GILLETT – [HOST] (51:06)

Carlii, thank you again. It’s been an absolute privilege to go through all this. Thank you. So enlightening personally. So I know how enlightening it will be for our listeners. Until next time.

 

CARLII LYON – [GUEST] (51:12)

Thank you.

Connect with Di:

Connect with Di on LinkedIn

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Contact Di

Find Carlii Lyon at:

Website www.carliilyon.com

LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/carliilyon/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/carlii_lyon/

 

This is the home of unapologetic conversations and powerful stories of reinvention. New episodes drop every Monday to fuel your week with insights on leadership, resilience, and success. Subscribe and join a community of women who are changing the game.

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Why Courage – Not Confidence – Is Underrated – At Any Age

Why Courage – Not Confidence – Is Underrated – At Any Age

From ICU nurse to CEO of one of Australia’s most complex healthcare infrastructure projects, Di Mantell has spent her career proving that leadership has no expiry date.

In this episode, Di joins host Di Gillett to explore why courage matters more than confidence and how purpose and perseverance create real impact. She shares how saying “yes” before you feel ready can change your trajectory, what it takes to lead through complexity, and why visibility for women over 50 isn’t fading – it’s evolving.

 

➡️In this episode you’ll hear:

  • Why bravery is the most under-rated leadership skill
  • Lessons from delivering the world’s largest healthcare sustainability loan
  • How to step forward before you feel ready
  • The truth about visibility and ageism in leadership How mentorship and legacy shape the next generation of leaders

 

Di Mantell said:

“If you step forward and you don’t like it, step sideways. Just don’t wait.”

“Leadership isn’t about titles – it’s about purpose, perseverance and partnerships.”

“Never say never. If someone sees something in you that you can’t yet see, trust them and step up.”

 

💥 New episodes drop every Monday to power your week.

📖 Read the full transcript of this conversation here 👇

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

DI MANTELL [Guest] (00:02)

think it’s about being brave. ⁓ If you look at all of the things that have got you to where you are right now, and you toed up what those skills are and what those roles are and what the things that you have achieved, both personally and professionally, most people are pretty special. And you’ve got the skills and you’ve got the ability to do things. You have to decide that you are going to take that next step and no one else can do that for you. You need to be brave.

 

And If you step forward and you don’t like what it is, well next time maybe you step sideways or maybe you step in a different direction. But it’s not, you can’t sit there and wait. The world doesn’t know you were living.

 

I’ve always believed that leadership isn’t about titles, it’s about purpose, perseverance and partnerships. Purpose gives me direction, perseverance keeps me focused on when things get messy, and partnership, that’s how you actually make things happen. When you lead with your heart, you stay curious and anything is possible.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (01:06)

I’m Di Gillett and welcome to the Power of Women Podcast. And what I love about this platform is the opportunity to showcase and celebrate the strength, resilience and achievements of women from all walks of life. And this is where the real stories are told and where we remind you to never assume. We talk resilience, reinvention and breakthroughs, the moments that don’t often make the headlines, but absolutely should.

 

So join the conversation wherever you listen to your favourite podcasts and be part of the power of women community. So let me ask you, do you ever feel invisible? Is purpose a question that you’re grappling with? And do you believe ageism, subtle or not, is still shaping how women are seen, valued and heard in the workplace?

 

Because today’s guest has lived those questions and answered them boldly. Di Mantell isn’t your typical CEO. She’s the pink-haired powerhouse behind Australia’s biggest healthcare milestones. Her leadership philosophy is built on purpose, perseverance and partnerships and a belief that the best decisions are often the ones you’re not quite ready for.

 

From ICU nursing Wagga Wagga to the boardrooms of billion dollar infrastructure and that’s billion with a B, Di’s story is proof that courage compounds and that visibility doesn’t fade with age. In fact, it deepens with purpose. So joining me to challenge a few societal views and share her story, Di Mantell, welcome to the Power of Women Podcast.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (02:55)

Thanks, Di,

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (02:57)

I,

 

you’re known as I said as the pinkhead powerhouse. We might share that pink in common. Who delivered Australia’s largest healthcare sustainability loan and what people may not realise is that your leadership story started a long way from the boardroom. Di, what was your first job?

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (03:18)

My first job was a ballroom and Latin American dancing teacher.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (03:23)

Here

 

you go. What age, Di?

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (03:27)

I was about 14, 15, I think, when I started. Yeah.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (03:30)

And

 

still able to throw it out on the dance floor.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (03:36)

⁓ not as good as I was, but yeah, I can still do it, I think.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (03:40)

Brilliant. So if you look back now, what were the moments that set your leadership DNA?

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (03:47)

thought about this a lot. I think I was initially quite reserved and I definitely wasn’t a cool kid at school. Definitely that wasn’t me. I think when I started nursing that gave me the skills and courage to stand up for what I thought was right and how things would work. But I never ever thought of being a leader. I had twins at 22, quite young, because I had endometriosis and it was then or never.

 

So that teaches you a lot about being organised and getting your act together, I think. But for me, think deciding that if I wanted to make changes and do things, then I had to get on and do them because I was a young mum, went back to working. ⁓ I knew what I didn’t want to do, but I don’t think I was quite as clear about what I did want to do.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (04:39)

enough. So Di you often talk about achieving the impossible which sounds like you started really early in doing that. What’s the drive behind that view?

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (04:52)

For me, think Having a really clear purpose enables you to drive an impact. And I think if perseverance is about delivering with heart, I love a shiny ball as much as anyone and a challenge that pops up and then you think that looks really cool and then work out how the hell you’re actually going to do it. And I love proving people wrong that they say, you couldn’t possibly do that. I know when I worked on the Fiona Stanley Hospital in Perth,

 

We put out a services contract for 25 services to support the new Fiona Stanley Hospital and everyone went, you will never get someone that will subcontract that, that’s too big. It was the largest services contract let in the Southern hemisphere. ⁓ And we did get it and we did prove that we could do it and we got a successful candidate for it and we put them in place. When we did the green and social loan, no one had ever done that before.

 

There was no green and social finance framework, so I had to write one. It wasn’t something I ever thought I would do. But I think once you decide you’re going to do it, you just need to buckle down and work out, what does that mean? What do I have to do now and how do I get there? And for me, I love that challenge and I love proving that I can do it, even though I don’t necessarily think I have the skills when I maybe start that decision.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (06:13)

You’ve

 

done a lot of first-offs by the sound of that Di. A lot of startups, a lot of leading initiatives, because I would take it that the Fiona Stanley Hospital came out of the Bali tragedy. Is that right?

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (06:27)

It, no, so part of it was, I think they decided after they did a big review, ⁓ the READ review in WA, that they needed to have a new hospital. What is quite unusual is to have what they call a greenfield site, where you basically aren’t knocking down one hospital to build another one, which is often what happens, which is what we’ve done in Adelaide. But it was building a brand new site that would have more services and would be state of the art. And most teaching hospitals last about

 

you know, good 50 odd years, you know, before you get another one. So you need to do them well. But it did enable us to take pieces from a number of hospitals and bring that together, put a whole new culture into that facility, put a whole, do a services contract with the private sector and then be able to still build up the services in the other hospitals that remain. So it was, there were only two greenfield sites being done at the time worldwide when we did that one. yeah.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (07:25)

So

 

if we just wind back to sort of your career build, Di, because you said you didn’t have that much sort of confidence and here you are leading these extraordinary initiatives. So if I look back, you became a nurse unit manager at 23 and if I’m right, you said you didn’t actually even apply for that job. So how did that shape your, that early experience in that scenario, shape your self-confidence and belief in yourself?

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (07:55)

I knew that I was clinically strong and I really loved ICU and I would still do it today if I went back to doing clinical work that’s where I would go back to. And I really, really loved ICU at the time. In nursing and in clinical work, certainly in nursing, a lot of the time you are promoted because you’re very good and strong clinically. You’re not good because you’re necessarily a manager but you get promoted to a management role.

 

So you’re right, I didn’t apply. Other people in the unit did apply and I was asked to take on the role. And after I’d said no three times and then said I would do it for six weeks.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (08:32)

Why

 

did you say no, Di? What was holding you back at that point?

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (08:36)

I think it was more that I knew other people had applied for it who had been there for longer than me and I thought that’s fine, that works for them. I had young children so shift work sort of worked for me but I didn’t think, I hadn’t thought that I had those skills that I thought you needed to be a nurse unit manager.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (08:55)

So you were doubting yourself more so than thinking you had time to do it? Yeah.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (09:00)

Yeah, it was a combination because most nurse unit managers at that time were like 55, 60, they’d been there forever. They were a very different sort of design focus than what I thought I was. And so for me, it was like, no, no, well, I’m happy for them to do it. I hadn’t really thought I would ever want to do that. I was very clear on things that I didn’t want to do. I wasn’t probably as clear on what I wanted to do. But for me, when I took on the role, ⁓

 

for my six weeks, I decided that I would definitely wanted to be exceptional in doing it. So what I wanted to go and do was to go and get the skills to do it. So I put myself through a Bachelor of Health Science Management, which was an external studies program that ran over six years, which ⁓

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (09:45)

top of twins, on top of the extra responsibility. Yeah, yeah.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (09:49)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was insane, absolutely insane and going to Bathurst twice a year for residential school. So, ⁓ but I was determined that if I was going to do it, I would have the qualifications. So there was no disputing that I was actually qualified to do the role. So ⁓ I’m glad I took it. It was an amazing opportunity. It was a very cool job to do. And I didn’t want to fail. Once I decided I was doing it.

 

Failing was non-negotiable, so I just had to move forward and make it work.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (10:21)

How’d you juggle everything? What was the stress level like?

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (10:24)

I never studied before 9.30 at night when I put the children to bed. ⁓ So, and I worked my day shift and whatnot, but whenever we were busy on a long weekend, a weekend at work, I would still go and cover. So yeah, was a pretty crazy period of time.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (10:42)

even going to ask you to to ⁓ to tally up the hours there’s no point so it was a lot yeah. So you’ve said growth happens when you take a leap and that was absolutely ⁓ a leap but have you ever done that before you were you felt that you were ready was was that your thinking behind the I’m taking this but I’m going to catch up with the with the ⁓

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (10:48)

I’m

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (11:11)

the education as I go along. It will.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (11:13)

Yes,

 

think I’ve done, yeah, I think I’ve taken a leap a few times and not thought about it. I made a decision to leave New South Wales and go to Kalgoorlie, full disclosure, I’d got divorced and I decided that I needed to be in a different town. So I went from Tumut in Snowy Mountains to Kalgoorlie, so I probably couldn’t have gone much further within Australia.

 

I took on the role there of the executive director of nursing for Northern Goldfields Health Service and it was an incredible opportunity and it serviced from Leonor and Laverton which is about 300 odd kilometres north of Kalgoorlie, 600 kilometres from Perth for those who don’t know and all the way down to Esperance at the coast. I didn’t know anyone there, I didn’t even go there for the interview, I had the interview done in

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (12:04)

⁓ wow, that’d be a shock culturally of arriving there.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (12:09)

Yeah, yeah. And a number of my friends had said, but what if you don’t like it? And I said, well, I’ll go and do something else. And the advantage of having a skills base of nursing was you do have opportunities to go and do other things. So that’s all fine. But for me, you should never underestimate the skill base that you’ve actually got. Like if, you know, what got you there will get you to somewhere else.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (12:35)

That’s a brilliant point of self-belief that a lot of people don’t have. So your take on that is if it all goes to mud, there’s another opportunity around the corner. Yeah.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (12:50)

Yeah, yeah. mean, so many people don’t take a role because they go, but what if I don’t like it? Or what if it doesn’t work for me? You’re not signing up for life. Like if you should give it a red hot crack and you should definitely do it for a good 12 months or more to see unless it’s really catastrophic or toxic, but you should give it a really good run. And if it doesn’t work, then go and do something else.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (13:07)

Yeah, great advice.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (13:16)

You’re not there. It’s not like you know, folks who used to get a job that would take them all the way through. So take the opportunity to come up and to see what happens.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (13:25)

Brilliant. So you’ve done quite a few pivots along the way, Di, from leadership to big infrastructure roles with these hospital builds. What have those shifts taught you about leadership and risk?

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (13:39)

⁓ When I first started my career, ⁓ I was deciding between whether I was going to be a nurse or I was going to be a home economics teacher, which I just started out now. ⁓ And I came from a family of nurses, so I was probably fairly destined that I was going to be a nurse. ⁓ As I said before, I knew what I didn’t want to do. I didn’t want to do midwifery and I didn’t want to be a matron, which shows how long ago I trained.

 

⁓ So I was very clear about what I didn’t want to do and when I had my twins I had this idealistic view that I would never have to work again, that I would go and have children and I would swan around and do whatever I don’t know what

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (14:18)

So you weren’t ambitious at that point or had you just been… Okay.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (14:24)

I think I just thought, no, no, I’ve done that. I’ve had the children. Twins is pretty full on. I’ll do all of that stuff and be a mum. I don’t know why. I’m not a parents and citizens sort of, you know, social mum group type of a girl. But I thought about that. But then I thought, I’ve now worked out I’ve done 27 roles in my time. So I figured that when interest rates went to 18 % and my husband’s business wasn’t doing much,

 

that one of us had to make a move. So I went back to work, which is when I then got the opportunity for ICU. ⁓ But I think it’s not necessary. I haven’t been one of those that said, I’m here and now I want to be there. That was never me. I’ve got a number of friends who’ve been very clear about that. Like they wanted to do midwifery and then they wanted to do something else and that was all fine. For me, it was more, we’ll just see what happens.

 

And I think I had a real advantage working in regional centres. Working away from metropolitan areas gives you so many more opportunities than you necessarily get when you work in the Metro, especially in health care.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (15:33)

And I guess there’s a talent pool who’s not prepared to move to those locations too.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (15:39)

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, and it’s interesting when those areas are sort of staff and say, would you like to go out there? They oh no, I couldn’t do that. So you do get a lot of opportunities to step forward and step up. And one of the opportunities for me was I had only been at Kalgoorlie for five months and I was asked to go and represent 22 rural health services to negotiate the nurses wage case on behalf of rural health. And I said to them, are you sure you’ve got the right person? I’ve only just got here.

 

And they said, well, you’re the perfect person because you’re not tainted by anything that’s gone on before. And it’s like, ⁓ OK. And again, they said, it’s about a six week process. ⁓ It wasn’t. It was six months. And then it took about two years to roll it out. But it gave me the opportunity to now go and negotiate and sit at the table on behalf of the Director General of Health and represent 22 rural health services. Like, I would never have thought I would be doing

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (16:35)

Yeah, but the marketplace knew you were capable. What’s coming through, Di, is you’ve been headhunted on multiple occasions based on proving yourself in ⁓ the positions you’ve undertaken.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (16:48)

Yeah, and you don’t think of it like that at the time. Like when they said to do it and go to Perth, I went to Perth 35 times in 12 months to do these negotiations. But as a result of doing that, I then got a role in Perth. I then eventually met my husband to a friend I met at the hotel I stayed at.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (17:05)

was

 

going to say, how’d you have time? Fortunately he was at the hotel.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (17:09)

Yeah, yeah. And then, yeah, but then the opportunities just then open up to be able to roll it out and then go and see all of West Australia ⁓ and visit sites and see them and develop strategies and processes that are now embedded in WA Health for things. But that was never something you could have even envisaged to do it. And then because of the work that I did, the Director General for WA Health,

 

invited me into his office and he said, I need to talk to about what’s happened. And I thought I’d done something wrong. And he said, I’d like to congratulate you on how well you’ve negotiated for the rural health services. The general managers are really happy. And I would like to thank you by sending you to a conference and I’d like to send you to Edinburgh. And I thought, it’s not Edinburgh, it’s WA. What? And he goes, no, no, no, in Scotland to attend a CEO conference on my behalf to go and do it. And it’s like,

 

wow. And I got to that, the other lady got sent up the coast to a site, so the Metro, so I felt very privileged. But it wasn’t something you could plan to do. But if you’re prepared to say yes when the opportunity comes up and providing it sort of within, you know, sounds reasonable or semi reasonable, you just don’t know where that will take you. Like that changed my whole pivot and direction of what I’m doing right now.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (18:33)

Just that point alone, being prepared to say yes and take a chance and back yourself. mean, let’s pause on that for a moment, Di. You were speaking to some of the up and coming executives who might listen to this Podcast for inspiration. What would you say to them about that?

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (18:52)

Never say never. And if somebody says something to you about, would you consider this? And you go, if inside you’re going, no, I couldn’t possibly do that. I don’t have those skills or whatnot. Don’t say that. Say to them, could I just ask you, what do you see in me that clearly I don’t see in me that makes you think I can do this role? And then you may find something about yourself that you’re not even aware of or that you, that

 

makes you suitable for this role.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (19:24)

And if I listen to what you’re saying and put my executive search hat on, I mean, you’re not out there overselling yourself. You’re simply out there delivering and your performance is being recognised. But you are still probably one of the most humble people sitting on the other side of the interview table, given all the achievements you’ve had, which is fantastic. Di, you’ve been the first to achieve

 

global sustainability milestones in the work that you’ve done. What does it take to keep breaking new ground in sectors that traditionally do resist change?

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (20:02)

I think it’s really important that you have a really clear direction in your head. So you need to know what your purpose is and where you’re going. You may not necessarily know how you’re going to get there, but you need to have that clarity around where you’re going. Because if you’re leading a team in this process, then you need to be able to articulate to them what it is you’re doing so that they can go with you. Because otherwise they’re sitting there going, well, I don’t know.

 

I don’t know what you’re trying to say or what you’re trying to do. So I think it’s important that you can articulate that. You shouldn’t ask anyone to do anything that you won’t do yourself. ⁓ And for me, that’s always been really important. I’m happy to sit down and write frameworks and do structures and get it all set up and then talk to people about how we do it. But I will never get someone to do something that I haven’t done. ⁓ When we did the Green and Social Finance Framework at the time,

 

There’s this group called the Asia Pacific Loan Managers Association, very exciting group of people who write these loan, social loan principles. And when they had written them, one came out in, the green ones came out in April 21 and the social principles came out in May. And we just, one of my board directors asked you if we could do this particular loan. So we were using a commercial advisor at the time and it became apparent early

 

that they’d done a bit on green loans, but they hadn’t actually done a green and social loan. So I had a choice that we could either keep getting all the information and handing it to them and then they would put it in a PowerPoint and give it back to me or I could do it myself. And I don’t come from a finance background, clearly. So I decided that it was silly me briefing them to give them me something back that I’d already written. So I sat down and wrote a green and social finance framework on the floor of my apartment.

 

over two nights and then gave it to the board and gave it to our commercial advisors and said, this is what I think we need to do. And then we got it assessed. So you have to actually get an assurance piece done by an independent assurance group, which we did. And they made some minor changes to it. And then we adopted it. And then you put it out to the market. This was mid COVID. So going to the market to do a refinance to start with in COVID was insane.

 

But we went to the market not knowing whether we would get the acceptance of what we were putting out there and we were doubly subscribed. So we had over $4 billion on the table and that’s been publicly noted to us on a secret. That’s pretty cool position to be in when you need 2.2 to be able to say, right, we do have it and the green and social finance framework is what drew people in because it was new and it was different.

 

and we committed that we would meet certain criteria to meet the loan. ⁓ But if somebody had asked me that six months before that, I would have never thought I could do that. Like, just never.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (23:04)

However, this thread of stepping up and doing something that you hadn’t done before and stepping out of your comfort zone plays all the way through your career.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (23:16)

Yeah, it’s a level of craziness I think that has been consistently…

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (23:19)

I’ll call it a level of confidence, Di, but maybe crazy given the scope and the amount that you’ve tacked on. So I am talking with Di Mantell, leadership powerhouse in the healthcare sector, and stay with us because coming up we’re going to talk about visibility, ageing and owning your next chapter.

 

If you’re loving the Power of Women podcasts, be sure to jump onto our YouTube channel and hit that subscribe button to ensure you never miss an episode.

 

So, Di, you’ve said leadership’s got no expiry date, but you and I both know that society is telling women, particularly us women over 50, that visibility kind of begins to fade with age. albeit I’m not sure that that necessarily applies to you and I when you take a look at us. But that being said, Have you ever felt that pressure personally?

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (24:22)

Yeah, I was actually told I was too young for one of my early roles and they said, no, no, you’re not experienced enough to go and do that. So ⁓ from very early on, I’d had that. ⁓ So I haven’t been told that I’m too old for doing the things, but I’m very well aware that women don’t talk about their age. So ⁓ they don’t.

 

I don’t personally go, So I’m 60 plus GST. I’m very happy and proud of that. But we, yeah, but We don’t, and we don’t tend to talk about that a lot. But if you ask a man, you never ever hear anyone when somebody, when a man is applying for something about what their age, it just is never ever in the conversation. And I think that’s okay, but I don’t know why women obsess about it. And I know that at times we are judged much more harshly.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (24:54)

You and I both.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (25:18)

⁓ in lots of professions for that. And I just think it has no role. For me, you are either good enough to do the role or you are not. That’s it. ⁓ I don’t care whether you’re black, blue, green, what your religious status is, sexual ⁓ favors, whatever. I don’t care about any of that. I only care that you’re good enough to do the role. The technical skills and the cultural fit are what works for me when I’m looking for someone for a role.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (25:47)

of that of the female doubt and questioning the age bit, do you think we put upon ourselves versus society?

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (25:58)

A lot, a lot. I think, ⁓ you know, if you put two or three males up against two or three females in any picture and whatnot, you will see who’s, you know, worked really hard to be where they are and what they look like. ⁓ But I think we are very quick to…

 

denigrate what we’ve done or say that you know we’re not good enough or play down and you know there’s that story that’s gone around for long time about you know if you look at a job description women see all the things they haven’t done and men find two things and know that it’s true.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (26:29)

I mean it’s been going around a long time but it’s absolutely true.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (26:33)

Yeah, and that victim mentality is definitely alive and well. I did a webinar earlier this year for a group that was about 350 people, of which about 80 % were female. And the number of people who commented on there about, oh my gosh, thank you so much for giving me things to talk about and be confident in what I’m doing. I’ve never felt like that before. I always felt that I wasn’t good enough. And it’s like, why? Why are we so harsh on ourselves about it?

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (27:03)

Why do you think that is? What do you think it is? Is it conditioning? Upbringing?

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (27:09)

I think, yeah, I think part of its conditioning, I think it’s part of the way that people are represented in the media. I think, you know, there’s a lot of, ⁓ there’s a lot of movies and ⁓ social media things out there that definitely play to that. And I think while ever we don’t say it’s not okay, we’re adding to that. So for me, I’ve never thought it like that. ⁓ I’m clearly not a conforming person necessarily, but

 

But I don’t consider that I’m actually a rogue or really radical. It’s just, I don’t accept that that’s how you have to be. So, ⁓ and it is a choice, but there are a lot of people who definitely have a victim mentality and want someone else to keep telling them they’re okay. That’s not someone else’s job. You have to sort that out for yourself. You have to decide what your standards are, what matters to you, what your values are, and what you will tolerate.

 

And if you want to sit there and be sad in the corner and think the world as you were living, then that’s entirely up to you. But you won’t get opportunities that are out there if you’re prepared to step forward. But I don’t understand it, but I can’t.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (28:17)

Yeah, and if you think back to your point about film and we’ll call it Hollywood, not that it’s necessarily Hollywood, but there were lots of subservient role models of women played out on the screens when you and I were growing up, but there equally today is some fantastic ⁓ films and series and footage out there of women being the powerhouse and the go-getters and dynamic and we will see that.

 

play out in society and how women present without question because you can see it, you can believe it and you think you can do it.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (28:53)

Absolutely, absolutely.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (28:55)

So with that in mind, What’s your advice to women in midlife who do feel invisible or underestimated, be it professionally or personally?

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (29:06)

I think it’s about being brave. If you look at all of the things that have got you to where you are right now, and you toed up what those skills are and what those roles are and what the things that you have achieved both personally and professionally, most people are pretty special. And you’ve got the skills and you’ve got the ability to do things. You have to decide that you are going to take that next step and no one else can do that for you. You need to be brave.

 

And If you step forward and you don’t like what it is, well next time maybe you step sideways or maybe you step in a different direction. But it’s not, you can’t sit there and wait. The world doesn’t know you were living. And it’s important for you to take the skills that you’ve got. Be a role model for the people around you, whether it’s your children or your grandchildren or your nieces or your friends or whatever. People are looking for good role models of people that will step up and…

 

and show the skills that are important for people to thrive and be good members of community. You need to find your tribe and it may be a small tribe or it might be a really big tribe, but find people that are like-minded. And it can be in your friend group or your local community, or it can be through podcasts like yours. This is so powerful for people to get confidence and learn new skills about what is out there and what you can and can’t do.

 

The number of amazing people that you interview, there will be somebody in there that you find aligns with what you want to do. Someone for… Yeah, so use those skills. And also, if you’re working in an organisation now and you’ve been sitting in the same little role and you want to do something else, tell your boss what you want to do. Because if you’ve set a little period and they don’t know and you’ve never put your hand up for an acting role or a second man or whatever,

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (30:39)

everybody it’s such a mix.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (31:02)

They don’t have ESP. Lots of bosses are really clever, but they won’t necessarily think that you want that if you’ve never told them. So put your hand up and say, next time there’s an opportunity, I’d really like to do that. And they might be really surprised and go, that’s amazing. I never knew that’s what you wanted to do. But use those opportunities to step out of your comfort zone and find something different that might inspire you.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (31:27)

They

 

are all such invaluable points, Di, and I love every one of those. So coming back to you for a moment, when you look back and in fact when you look forward at the legacy you want to leave in leadership and in life, what might that be?

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (31:45)

First of no one’s ever asked me that before, so the great question. I want to be a really good role model for my children and my grandchildren. I have got a powerhouse granddaughter. I’ve got three gorgeous grandsons as well, but I have a powerhouse granddaughter and I want her to really know that the sky’s limit for her. She’s named, her second name is after my mum and my mum is definitely in this little lady, so she will be a powerhouse.

 

I want to, I really, really hope that, ⁓ so I’m finishing my CEO role at the end of this year and I’m moving to do more board roles and keynote speaking and mentoring. Yes, very exciting, very exciting next phase. I’m hopeful that the culture that I have embedded in this organisation outlives me. ⁓ I think we’ve worked very hard to have a really well respected organisation that does a lot of really good things.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (32:25)

stick stick.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (32:42)

contractually for what we need to deliver, but also within the community that we serve. So for me, that’s really, really important. And I hope people just see my passion ⁓ and maybe that that inspires someone else to want to do things. I’ve got a lot of things that I still want to do. ⁓ And for me, being passionate and really caring about the things that I believe in are really important. So hopefully that will continue.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (33:09)

Fantastic. So if I sum that up, there’s another young Dai mental coming through in the next generation with a dose of grandma, which is clearly where you got some of your spirit and drive from being your mother. And without doubt, the legacy that you’ve left behind in the role that you’re stepping away from will endure because that’s what good leadership does. So well done, Dai.

 

As we come to a close, my final question that I would love you to respond to today, Di, and you’ve mentored countless women along the way, particularly in the industry in which you’ve specialised and through mentor walks and leadership programs and going forward you will in your board roles. What do you see that is holding women back so significantly today and how do we change it?

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (34:10)

⁓ I think it goes back to being brave. think it’s interesting. I went to mental walks this morning. So we met Bright and Shiny this morning here in Adelaide. ⁓ And all of these women were very accomplished people and whatnot. And a lot of it ⁓ is just about being brave. They’ve got the positions that they have because they are good and they’ve earned them. So that’s why they are where they are.

 

What you choose to do next is now a decision that you need to make and that’s a matter of either saying, no this is it, I’m happy to plateau out here and this works for me and I’ve got my dream job.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (34:48)

And it’s okay, yeah.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (34:50)

Yeah, absolutely. And not everyone wants to be a high achiever. I mean, that’s perfect.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (34:55)

It gets pointier at the top, Di. There’s not enough room for everybody to be there.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (35:00)

If you want to be the person who runs the school canteen or the community groups or the things, they are all important ⁓ in our organisations and in our communities. But for me, if you want to go and step forward, the only thing holding you back is you. You’ve got access to a large amount of skills. Places like LinkedIn have amazing opportunities for leveraging and learning off really clever, intelligent people.

 

If you don’t put your hand up and tell people you want to do things, then people won’t know. And you need to take those opportunities. And like I said before, if you take it and you don’t like it, go and do something else. That’s okay. But you are in control of your next step.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (35:46)

Beautiful. And it is why I am taking ownership of the hashtag Never Assume because if you don’t try, you don’t step forward, you don’t put yourself out there, you just might never know. that’s great. That’s great, Di. So heading into the world of board roles, I imagine that’s still going to be a meaty ⁓ part of your career journey because I can’t see you sitting back and

 

and watching the water every day.

 

DI MANTELL [Guest] (36:21)

Absolutely not. No, no, I could think of nothing worse than not being able to give back. ⁓ And board work for me is a real opportunity to take all the things I’ve learned up until now and be able to give back in a really positive way. ⁓ The Silver Chain Board I’m on currently and the Australasian College of Health Service Management State Council, which is a mini board, are both amazing opportunities to continue to make a difference. And so for me, reaching out

 

further to do more of those types of roles in infrastructure or in sport or whatever comes around. I think the skills I’ve got I would really like to be able to use them to give back and hopefully make a difference for some other organisations.

 

DI GILLETT [Podcast Host] (37:04)

the job ad, So we’ve got that bit out of the way. well done. If anybody is looking for a damn dynamic CEO with C-suite leadership and specialisation in infrastructure development, Di is your woman. So well done, Di. Di, thank you so much for joining me on the Podcast. It’s such an inspirational story of a career of somebody who probably thought they were going to spend their life being a

 

a home mum to being such an inspirational CEO and leader and with a fabulous board career in front of you. And I know Dai is active on LinkedIn, so if you’re looking to get in touch with Dai or have got a board opportunity that you’d like to talk to her about, I know that you’ll be able to find Dai there. And equally, follow me on the socials and I too spend a fair bit of time on LinkedIn. So if you want to learn about what I’m

 

doing. am also there and I publish a weekly newsletter now, Power of Reinvention. Please be sure to follow the Podcast and share this episode because Dai’s career experience and leadership advice is invaluable. Until next time.

 

Connect with Di:

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Contact Di

 

Find Di Mantell at:

LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/di-mantell/

 

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From Setback To Comeback

From Setback To Comeback

What happens when the drive that makes you great becomes the force that brings you undone?

Life coach, bestselling author and keynote speaker Shannah Kennedy joins me, Di Gillett on the Power Of Women Podcast to explore the thin line between ambition and burnout, and why recovery, identity and self-awareness are now critical skills for high-performing women.

From managing elite athletes to living at full throttle, Shannah’s story is a reminder that setbacks can be the start of your greatest comeback. If you’re willing to do the inner work.

 

In this episode, you’ll hear:

Why “Who are you without your job?” is the most confronting (and necessary) question you can ask.

How to rebuild your identity beyond titles and achievements.

The difference between ambition and overachievement.

Why women in midlife face “the perfect storm” — and how to plan your way through it.

Daily rituals for resilience: mindfulness, breathwork and boundaries.

 

Shannah said:

“Setbacks are inevitable.”

“The line between ambition and breakdown is when you stop listening to your body.”

“Treat yourself like a high-performing human because that’s what you are.”

 

💥 New episodes drop every Monday to power your week.

📖 Read the full transcript of this conversation here:

SHANNAH KENNEDY (00:02)

Well the first thing is who are you without your job? And if you can’t answer that, it’s pretty confronting. ⁓

 

DI GILLETT – Host (00:09)

We’ve had a setback and setbacks are inevitable. They come in all forms. It could be we’ve been made redundant, our marriage or relationship has fallen over. We’ve had a health episode that’s knocked us sideways that we didn’t see coming or there’s been a loss of somebody in our world.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (00:29)

So you need to do the work on yourself first and when you have a big curve ball, if you’ve gone through a divorce or a redundancy, you have fallen flat on your bottom and you really need to do the work. And so all of a sudden the achievement junkie is so shocked at what just happened that they come to people like me and say, okay, teach me.

 

we go into, you know, what are your values? Let’s build the human now from the ground up so that you can jump back on and go and get another great job or enter another relationship or move forward with your health. We need to reset yourself. So where are the boundaries? What are the goals? What are the habits that are non-negotiable for you now moving forward that really serve your own set of values? And then you need to say yes to the world.

 

The line between ambition and breakdown is when you stop listening to your body. The question is never why me, but more who will I become because of this? A really important question to be asking ourselves in change. Women in midlife are facing the perfect storm. Without a plan, it can break you, and with a plan, it can make you.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (01:57)

I’m Di Gillett and welcome back to the POWER OF WOMEN podcast. What I love about this platform is the opportunity to showcase and celebrate the strength, resilience and achievement of women from all walks of life. And we talk resilience, reinvention and the moments that don’t make the headlines but in fact should.

 

So the conversation today is a really important one and I know this is going to resonate with so many of you listening because today we’re going to explore how to turn setbacks into comebacks. And joining me to discuss this and how we approach it is one of Australia’s most respected life coaches, a bestselling author, and we’ve got a couple of the books on the table with us today, keynote speaker,

 

and mentor to athletes, CEOs and high performers. Shannah Kennedy, welcome to the Power of Women podcast.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (02:57)

Thank you for having me. It’s beautiful to be here.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (03:00)

Shannah, before we start, I’d like to get into a little bit of your origin story because I think you’ve had your own setback that really framed what your comeback would be. Could we start there? Because you had a high-flying career as a sports manager and somewhere along the line you hit the wall. What happened?

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (03:24)

I certainly did. I don’t know if any of the listeners out there have married their job before, but that’s what I did. ⁓ I was in my 20s. I had the most incredible job. was the full Jerry Maguire job. You know, there was athletes. I was working for a wonderful brand. My job was to buy and sell the athletes, to do all the sponsorship deals.

 

Sport is always on the weekend, so great. Every weekend was full, flying around watching sporting events, but never took any time off. So basically, full-time marriage into the job, loved it. Had a lot of friends because I had lot of free passes to places. I had a lot of free things to give away and a lot of money to give away. So my life was really superficial.

 

although I didn’t see that at the time, it was just full excitement. Sort of like if you are an elite athlete, things aren’t quite normal. And anyway, I just did not see the warning signs. I did not want to see the warning signs. So, you know, when your body starts to talk to you and you get the headache, you get the sore bones, you’ve got to force yourself to go to work a little bit.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (04:38)

Explain it away though, that’s the trouble.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (04:41)

Yeah,

 

you do. You create great stories to support yourself and your sabotaging lifestyle. I was also trying to do triathlons myself. I was trying to have relationships and everything was just crumbling around me until one day I just couldn’t get up. I actually could not get through the concrete. And I was diagnosed with chronic fatigue and that was 30 years ago.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (05:08)

Yeah, and we don’t talk about that a lot, but it was something that so many people hit through HSC studies and those sorts of things. So how long did that…

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (05:21)

That

 

was full adrenal burnout. That was a year in bed, a year. A year in bed. Not able to drive, can’t concentrate, can’t turn the lights on, it hurts my eyes. Couldn’t turn the radio on or the TV on because it would hurt my ears. Everything was just fried. Think of everything being fried. Then the huge realisation was, who am I without my job? There was no emails. There was no phone calls.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (05:26)

Yeah

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (05:49)

There was nothing. There was silence. The company were great. They held my job. But it was a horrible realization that I actually hadn’t created a person who went to work. I just created my title. So I was actually lying there thinking of our elite athletes and what happens to them when they go from hero to zero, sometimes overnight, you know, when they do their ACL or they get dropped from the team or.

 

Who is Dusty Martin without Richmond Football Club?

 

DI GILLETT – Host (06:20)

Nobody

 

seems to care about the person, they care about what impact it has on them as a fan.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (06:26)

Exactly. But we need to be a person first who plays football for that team or goes to that job and then gets off that ride and is still a full person. So it was a real gift in the end because I actually in that time really thought about all of the athletes that I had worked with. I saw all of the destruction post sport, which nobody cared about back then because it was the early 2000s.

 

Well-being wasn’t a word, mental health was not a word. It was go hard or go home. So I actually got myself a coach ⁓ to coach me back to unlearn all of my bad habits, to unlearn the I need to use hard work as a badge of honour and relearn a much more sustainable way.

 

of being a high performer without the burnout and having a life as well. So it’s a very exciting time, even though very challenging, incredibly painful chronic fatigue. Your bones are like broken. It feels like you have had the biggest night on the town.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (07:27)

What does it feel like?

 

without the fun.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (07:34)

without any fun. It’s like the worst hangover but also your bones feel like they’ve been punched so it feels bruised so it’s extremely painful. I don’t think people talk about that very much. It’s not just I’m a bit tired, So that ended up in a big depression because I actually didn’t know who I was.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (07:49)

No, it’s more than that.

 

You lost your identity.

 

Ouch.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (07:59)

Yeah, at 30. At 30. That’s early. That’s early to have a crisis like that.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (08:05)

Indeed it

 

  1. And that overachievement junkie pursuit which you would have had, and you would have been surrounded by people with that because they were high performers and killer instincts and strive to win and wins the only thing. And you would have had it in your DNA because you were competitive sporting wise in your own right.

 

So how much of it was about being an overachievement junkie and how often do you see that in the people that you coach now?

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (08:42)

Well, I still see it in myself. I think it is. And I think if you are a driven woman and you have that achievement, you know, I’m not happy unless I’m achieving sort of mentality, it doesn’t go away, but you can make a healthier version of it.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (09:00)

That was going to be my question because what makes you great is what brings you undone. So how do you balance that?

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (09:06)

There’s

 

a balancing act. So now my achievement is not, did I sell 10,000 books yesterday? Although that’s very nice. It is, what did you do to care for the asset which is yourself? So that she doesn’t burn out, so that she does have balance. Did you set a boundary? Did you do your breath work? Did you do the three M’s to start your day, which is make my bed, move my body, mindfully breathe? Do the pacing stuff.

 

Did I do three breaths every time I wash my hands today? That paces me through the day so I don’t burn.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (09:43)

You’re that, you’re doing that every day. And I did that before we started recording this morning. So I did the three, four, five breathing just to centre.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (09:45)

Yeah,

 

center. So that’s athlete mentality. I mean we watch it all the time. We’ve just watched the grand final. We see people breathing. We see Olympians just preparing themselves with breath. Breath is your first skill to go and really master. So I see it as the Gatorade stations in the marathon of the day. So every time you do that conscious breathing you ⁓ just give yourself a moment to ground yourself.

 

That’s like stopping at the Gatorade station before you carry on for the next 5k’s of the day. I teach a lot of my clients, especially women, how to pace themselves because they are trying to do everything all at the same time.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (10:40)

And particularly midlife women because that sandwich generation piece of you’re managing all ends of the spectrum. Yes. Coming up behind you, those who’ve gone before you.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (10:51)

Yes, and we’re in a crisis at the moment because women have never been in this position before. We’re actually at the top of our careers in our mid-50s. We’ve really got to partner. We’ve developed incredible businesses. Unfortunately, we had kids later, so our kids are still at home. They haven’t gone. And our parents are still with us because they’re living longer. And at the same time, our body is changing.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (11:12)

Incinerate

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (11:19)

It’s a perfect storm and it hasn’t been there in any other generation. Because the generations before, the grandparents didn’t live as long. The kids moved out at 20. Now they’re staying home. ⁓ And by the time you’re in menopause, your career was sort of finished. So we’re in really uncharted waters. Yeah, it’s an interesting But I think it’s exciting.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (11:41)

So with that in mind, are the majority of your female clients midlife women?

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (11:49)

No, I have women, men, I have retiring men, retiring women in their 60s, 70s. I have young people in their 20s starting. And everyone wants a plan.

 

They haven’t got a plan. So if you haven’t got a plan, it’s like driving around the roundabout. When you have a plan, it’s like, we know which direction we’re driving on the GPS. So even if it’s a short-term plan, the brain is really comfortable as soon as it knows where it’s going. So we do need a plan, which we plan in pencil, because there’s always change. We need to get comfortable with change. ⁓ And when you do have that plan in pencil, you can enjoy the ride.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (12:31)

That point about pencil is a fascinating one because I still keep a day book as a running sheet of what I’ve got to do. ⁓ And I love writing. I have a creative style of writing that comes from my fashion design background and I physically like writing. And for years I always used a beautiful Lamy pencil because I could

 

change it and it’s only in recent years that I’ve actually moved into writing with a rollable pen and I wonder whether there’s a conscious switch in going from pencil can change it to feeling clear enough that I’m going to put it down in pen and stick with it.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (13:18)

think pen is amazing. I think pencil is for long term. So if we’re thinking about your 10 year older version of yourself, which is your role model, of course, is you, your best friend in 10 years time. You put that age to it, so I’m 55, so I’d be 65. So I would be planning in pencil because I don’t know what curve ball is coming my way. But I’m planning in pencil on, you know, what are the life experiences that I want.

 

What experiences do I want with my husband, with my kids, with my friends, all different ones? I might be planning in how I want to feel. More agile, stronger. Okay, what can I do today? Where do I want to be financially so I know what I need to do today and why I’m not going to go to the sale and buy some more towels because we’ve got enough towels just because I really like them or more stationary because I love stationary. I’m serving her.

 

I am serving her, I’m working for her, that’s my life plan. So I know why I make decisions today is for her because I don’t feel like going for a walk when it’s cold and windy here in Melbourne, but I’ll get up and go for her because she’s saying thank you, keep moving, keep moving or get to yoga, I want you to be agile. So I have this trainer in my brain who is to me

 

DI GILLETT – Host (14:37)

speaks to you in third

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (14:40)

from my life plan because this is how I want to feel and this is what I want to experience and this is what I want to learn.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (14:50)

And I’m thinking what you said, and I think it was after turning 60 that I probably went from pencil to rollable pen. I wonder whether there was something in that.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (15:02)

Well, deep confidence comes when we know which way we’re going and how we want to feel and what we want to experience. That’s confidence. Because you’re living your plan, not somebody else’s plan.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (15:14)

I think I just got analysed on the

 

So you talked about your own setback being a gift and it was a turning point for you. So for those listening who are in the middle of a hiccup or a setback, how can they start to see the hidden opportunities in what feels like a crisis?

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (15:45)

It always feels like a crisis. It’s like you just fell off your bike. It’s a crisis. It hurts. It’s horrible. You sit there. Your confidence is completely stripped and you’re sitting in the gutter and it’s a horrible place to be. And the first thing we need to do is breathe. The first thing you do to a child is catch your breath.

 

We’re not going to talk about it yet. We’re going to catch your breath. Ground yourself. Okay, now we’re going to slowly stand up and then we’re going to make a plan and we’re going to jump back on the bike. It’s the same. We need to go through a beautiful process and not just react. We need to ground ourselves first. We need to think about how that felt.

 

What am I learning from this? And the learning might not come till later. Certainly in the middle of chronic fatigue, I did not think it was a gift. But it opened doors for me that I would never have seen. It’s also allowed me, or I have chosen to see it as the gift to live wide awake and with intention. So mindfulness, breath work, all of those soft skills, which I did not possess before I had to bring in, and they became the guide.

 

Like taste the coffee. I’m so happy I have a bed with a doona. You know, I’ve got a car that works. Let’s go down to the little things. And so I actually feel like I’ve had a very grateful life because I’ve focused on the small things.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (17:12)

What would be the difference do you think had you not hit the wall if you’d kept going?

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (17:17)

Well, it isn’t until you lose everything.

 

friends, your so-called friends, your identity, your body, that you appreciate small things. So I think if I hadn’t I would still be the A-type overachieving junkie who probably would have blown up her marriage and not felt anything and not been present for her children or maybe not pivoted the right way and just reacted all the way along like a bouncy ball and probably got to midlife ready for a massive crisis.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (17:49)

And that’s probably what we see with a lot of these relationships and characters who blow up. You know, it’s the guy going and getting the sports car. It’s the marriage breaking up at 50 when you think you should just be settling in and starting to plan post-children and enjoy yourself. It’s all of those things coming to that crux.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (18:15)

It’s

 

always the people who haven’t done any work on themselves. So they have been addicted to achievement the whole way through. They have maybe got to partner or had a great career, but everything around them.

 

is incredibly unstable. again, they put all of their eggs into their title and didn’t build the human. And that’s why we need a life plan, which brings in a career plan and a financial plan and a health plan, but it’s actually your life. How do you want it to unfold? Get in the driver’s seat and out of the passenger seat. So a lot of them, I think, have just been maybe just too one-eyed and it’s just life is not like that.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (18:57)

I think that’s right. Well coming up, what to do when setbacks hit and how to manage your comeback. If you’re loving the POWER OF WOMEN podcasts, be sure to jump onto our YouTube channel and hit that subscribe button to ensure you never miss an episode.

 

Shannah, before we went to a break, you made a really interesting point. You said we put all of our energy into our title and not into us as a human. How prevalent is that in the marketplace?

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (19:34)

enormous because that’s where a lot of women value themselves and their confidence. They don’t value the small things, they only value the title. And when the title is taken away, what’s left? We need to have built the human being who gets on the ride, whether that be at Macquarie Bank or

 

the business that they’ve built, it doesn’t matter what it is, but you need to be able to step off and be the human. It’s just a ride. It’s just a ride in the playground, your job.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (20:06)

So how do you take somebody on that journey to draw the distinction? Because if I’m an achievement junkie and my title of partner has been the pinnacle of my career, I’m there, it defines me. How do you encourage me to think of me as an individual in the bigger picture?

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (20:27)

Well, the first thing is who are you without your job? And if you can’t answer that, it’s pretty confronting. So that’s when they say, okay, I’m open to working on it now, because they can’t answer that one question. And it’s a really important question is to know who you are and what’s important to you outside of your job. And what are you doing to feed that consciously, consciously?

 

DI GILLETT – Host (20:52)

So we’ve had a setback and setbacks are inevitable. They come in all forms. It could be we’ve been made redundant, our marriage or relationship has fallen over. We’ve had a health episode that’s knocked us sideways that we didn’t see coming or there’s been a loss of somebody in our world. What’s the non-negotiables in a recovery plan to come back from one of those setbacks?

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (21:20)

Well, that’s why I wrote Plan B. Because it was about navigating and embracing change. And after 20 years of coaching people through change, I thought, I’m just going to put it into a simple format for people. For what happens in your brain is we get the curve ball, it comes, it’s lemons, it hurts, it’s falling off your bike, it’s the redundancy, it’s, ⁓ you know, I had a cancer diagnosis, ⁓ my partner passed away, or my…

 

mother passed away or it just can be a range of things you know a business partner blindsided you. The first thing that we have to do is just respond and we can’t respond until we’ve taken a breath. We’ve acknowledged all of our feelings. We’ve created a narrative that works for us to tell other people when other people corner us what happened with your marriage you know.

 

You want to shut that down pretty quickly because that goes into a whole rabbit hole. So you have to have your elevator pitch ready. ⁓ And then you just respond with grace. You just respond with grace. Then you need to recover. So we need to take the time to recover. We need to think about,

 

What are the self-care things that I need to do to just refuel my tank, whether it be physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually? We need to take a little time, a little gap, instead of just jumping straight back on the bike, a little gap to…

 

DI GILLETT – Host (22:48)

Achievement

 

junkies. So how do you encourage me not to go? I’m just going to get back into it and keep busy.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (22:55)

So you need to do the work on yourself first and when you have a big curveball, if you’ve gone through a divorce or a redundancy, you have fallen flat on your bottom and you really need to do the work. And so all of a sudden the achievement junkie is so shocked at what just happened that they come to people like me and say, okay, teach me.

 

So that’s where we start. And once we’ve done a bit of recovery and we’ve had a bit of time off and we’ve just settled ourselves, we go into, know, what are your values? Let’s build the human now from the ground up so that you can jump back on and go and get another great job or enter another relationship or…

 

move forward with your health, ⁓ we need to reset yourself. So where are the boundaries? What are the goals? What are the habits that are non-negotiable for you now moving forward that really serve your own set of values? And then you need to say yes to the world. Yes, let’s radiate again. Let’s come, jump on the bike. Let’s take off again and have another go. But there’s quite a process to get there. And the people that don’t go through those stages,

 

⁓ always fall again and again and again.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (24:15)

And is that what your personal coach took you through when you hit the wall? And how long do you think the reset took?

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (24:19)

Mmm, 100%.

 

I would say at least two years. And then I studied coaching to open my own business to coach athletes into retirement. That was before anyone had heard of a life coach. So think I was one of the first qualified ones in Melbourne 25 years ago. And it started with athletes, then it went into business athletes, I call them, and then life athletes.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (24:51)

And I get that I come from a family of elite athletes and my brother was an elite athlete and he tragically lost his wife Amy Gillett when the Australian cycling team was struck by a car in Germany. Why I tell the story in this setting is Simon was still thinking like an elite athlete in his approach of how he was going to manage his grief. And I can remember him.

 

going hard, keeping busy. He was flying here, he was flying there, he wasn’t acknowledging what had happened. And then out of the blue, he got the hiccups. And I don’t mean an occasional hiccup, I mean 24-7. You can’t eat, you can’t drink, you can’t sleep. The hiccupping was constant. And after about five days, he was broken. Absolutely.

 

broken, his body took over. So it’s, isn’t it interesting as to how if you don’t take the decision, the decision like your chronic fatigue for you.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (25:51)

His body took up.

 

Yeah, your body will take over.

 

Absolutely. And the grief cycle is huge. And it can last forever. Forever. doesn’t go away. So I put that in the book as well. we don’t get taught all of this at school. No. We don’t get taught anything at school except get a great ATAR and go to university. And that’s it. Full stop.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (26:24)

Do you

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (26:28)

Yes, 100%. I think they are bringing wellbeing in now, is great. It’s a small introduction. But a lot of these life skills, if you’re not a reader or I suppose now it’s much easier listening to podcasts, you can learn these skills. That was never around before. Nobody talked about all of this before. Grief was shoved under the carpet. Don’t go near that person. ⁓

 

the book was written in COVID, it came to me at two in the morning, like a Jerry Maguire moment, and I just got up and went, know the exact pathway.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (27:06)

And

 

so Plan B was your first… Number six. But the context.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (27:08)

book. No, that was number six.

 

The

 

context of it. Yeah, exactly.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (27:16)

Brilliant. So for a high performer listening to this podcast, what are some really practical strategies for them to prevent the next crash and to build a more sustainable comeback?

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (27:28)

Beautiful. think especially for women who are listening to this, is, you know, we are these incredible human beings. We really are.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (27:41)

If

 

we don’t say so ourselves.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (27:43)

Yeah,

 

and I’m just going to shout that from the rooftop. We are incredible human beings and we need to protect the ascent. We need to put kid gloves around ourselves a little bit and listen to the body because the body will take over otherwise and things happen to us. So we do need to think about filling the oxygen tank before the mask. We do need to think about if I’m going to be a high performer like an athlete, I need to have high performance recovery.

 

And athletes do. They have incredible recovery protocol. We need to as well. And making that your part of your career is what is my recovery. You know, for me, it’s massage, acupuncture, Chinese herbs. It’s constant. It’s been going for 25 years with no burnout. Raising the family, looking after the parents, writing books, traveling the country, speaking on stages and coaching people.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (28:39)

No

 

burner.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (28:42)

None. My recovery is so important to me. So important. I will go and have a 20 minute sleep in the middle of the day.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (28:50)

because you can

 

read when you need to do it and you can respond rather than…

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (28:54)

You know, back-to-back presentations, for example, I will book a boardroom and go and lie down with my legs up the wall for half an hour. Yeah, there you go. treat yourself like a high-performing human because you are one. And high-performing humans and athletes really focus on recovery, just as much as performance. And that could be your rest protocol, your sleep protocol. Your exercise protocol. know, the way you move, the way you hydrate, the way you fuel your body. ⁓

 

treat it like an elite athlete because that’s what you are. You are managing so many different areas in life and everybody needs you.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (29:32)

Yeah, that’s great advice. Thank you. What’s the most significant challenge women are facing today and what do we need to do about it?

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (29:41)

I think there’s two. One is we’re in the crisis of ⁓ managing so many different areas of life all at the same time. Menopause, adult children, aging parents, top of our career. It’s enormous. I think it’s a huge load that women have never had before. ⁓ The other one is comparisonitis. I think social media.

 

It actually is destroying a lot of women’s confidence where they don’t feel seen, they don’t feel heard. They’re comparing themselves to someone else’s shopfront, which might not be like that behind the scenes. And it’s really affecting their confidence. And so they are feeling a little invisible maybe because they’re distracted. It’s like if you’re in a running race and you’re running perfectly well and you start looking sideways.

 

What happens to your run? You lose momentum. So every time we’re stuck in comparisonitis we’re losing momentum. And I think it’s a huge problem at the moment, especially while we’re in the whole storm of managing everything else.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (30:51)

That’s such an important word. I’ve heard it said recently and it’s relatively new to my vocab, but that is such an incredibly powerful one.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (31:04)

Comparisonitis

 

DI GILLETT – Host (31:07)

hard to say.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (31:08)

Very hard to say, but think of it as an athlete. If an athlete is comparing themselves to somebody else, they’re always going to feel.

 

If they’re focused on themselves and their 10 year plan, they’re going to be excited, motivated, pumped and looking for new people to bring in to surround themselves with the right people. The minute we’re looking sideways we lose all momentum. So I think social media you have to have a boundary on.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (31:40)

So if I think of that as a term, I think that’s probably a term that derailed me in my 30s and didn’t really stand into my own power until in my 40s because I had a couple of powerful friends around me and I was living vicariously through them, not being true to myself. So I think that is a…

 

The existed long before social media.

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (32:12)

⁓ it did, it did. And that’s why people need a plan. If you have your own vision board up and your own words up on the mirror that really work for you and you are solely committed to enjoying your life, not someone else’s, your life, how can I make today great for myself? What can I be grateful for? What’s my challenge today? Can I breathe today? Did I move my body today? Did I do all the things to serve this asset?

 

Life’s pretty exciting.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (32:43)

Yeah, brilliant. Shannah, thank you I am going to start putting more emphasis on me as the asset rather than me being the last down the line. Good idea. think that’s a must. How can somebody find you if they’re looking to engage yourself?

 

SHANNAH KENNEDY (33:00)

Amazing. Well, that can go to my website, shannahkennedy.com. There’s lots of free resources, free screensavers to keep you on track, free downloadable vision board kits so that you can start your own vision board. Fantastic. All on the website. yes, I do one-on-one coaching. I do workshops for corporates.

 

DI GILLETT – Host (33:13)

and a number of these books that you

 

busy and you’re not burning out. Well done, you. Fantastic. Well, I think that is such ⁓ a truckload of messages that Shannah has delivered today. But I think if we do take the approach of treat ourselves as the asset, rather than the inevitable that can keep pushing, keep pushing, keep pushing, and we’re not breakable, because that would be wrong. are in fact likely to burn out, to

 

to exhaust ourselves, to run ourselves down, and nobody, including ourselves, are going to benefit from that. And I know I have been guilty of it. I’m sure you have been guilty of it. So share this episode with a friend to make sure we treat ourselves as the asset we deserve. Until next time.

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Find Shannah at:

Website https://shannahkennedy.com/

LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannah-kennedy-8a898b1/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/shannahkennedy/

 

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