Ageism - Power of Women

Find Jacqueline Freeman at:

Website https://58andunapologetic.com

LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacquelinefreeman-763ab891

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/58andunapologetic/

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40 Years in Modelling… and Fully Employed at 57

by admin | Feb 23, 2026 | Ageism, Female Empowerment

In this episode, Kate Bell reflects on a 40-year modelling career that defies conventional timelines. Modelling is one of the toughest industries in the world and at 57, Kate is still fully employed.

She speaks openly about ageism, rejection, women’s self-perception, and the practices that sustained her – from yoga and writing to self-discipline and creative expression.

Rather than positioning reinvention as a single turning point, Kate describes a career built on constant adaptation and responsibility for how she responds to life and work.

➡️You’ll Hear :

How rejection shaped Kate’s professional detachment and resilience

Why mature women are still underrepresented in fashion

The role of creativity as a lifelong stabiliser

What staying relevant actually requires

Kate said:

“Modelling is a job where you’re constantly and consistently wrong and rejected.”

“I’m healthier, happier, and more alive at 57 than I’ve ever been.”

“For real equality to happen, women must work together. Together we rise.”

Chapters:

00:00 The Journey of Self-Discovery and Connection

02:55 The Glamorous Yet Tough World of Modelling

05:56 Facing Industry Realities: Bullying and Racism

09:06 Reinvention and Self-Kindness

11:55 The Power of Intuition and Personal Growth

15:07 Creativity as an Anchor in Life

21:08 Resilience in the Face of Rejection

26:25 The Nature of Rejection in Modelling

35:05 Women’s Self-Perception and Aging

45:07 Empowerment and Support Among Women

Connect with Di:

Substack https://katebell.substack.com/?r=vl8lb&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=profile&utm_content=link_in_bio&fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQMMjU2MjgxMDQwNTU4AAGn64pbkZE-s9uwUSetIa6JvlFQgH1zXycTZNUvbFT0wq_Y8VirwV4vpmKIZAU_aem_vjgIJmSrXCBU5tGgeYRE_g

Find Kate Bell at:

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/i_am_katebell/

This is the home of unapologetic conversations and powerful stories of reinvention. New episodes drop every Monday to fuel your week with insights on leadership, resilience, and success. Subscribe and join a community of women who are changing the game.

Want more fearless, unfiltered stories?

💫 Subscribe to the Power Of Women Podcast on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts

Your ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify keeps these stories alive.

📩 Sign up for our newsletter where I share raw reflections and thought leadership on the Power Of Reinvention.

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Let’s Talk About Women’s Longevity: Why We Should Rethink Ageing & Healthspan

by admin | Jan 26, 2026 | Ageism, Female Empowerment, Health & Wellbeing, Women's Health

In this powerful and deeply relevant conversation, Di Gillett is joined by Maddy Dychtwald, globally recognised futurist, author, and co-founder of Age Wave – to talk about longevity and challenge outdated narratives around ageing, retirement, women’s health and relevance.

Women are living longer than ever before – yet spending more years in declining health. Maddy unpacks why lifespan is the least useful measure of ageing, why healthspan and brainspan matter far more, and how up to 90% of our long-term health outcomes are within our control.

This conversation goes well beyond theory. From inflammation, menopause, and Alzheimer’s risk, to workforce ageism, outdated retirement models, and the power of lifestyle choice, this episode is a call to reclaim agency – personally, professionally, and biologically.

This is not about anti-ageing.
It’s about ageing with authority, vitality, and intention.

We explore:

Why women are winning the longevity lottery, but paying a hidden price
The critical difference between lifespan, healthspan and brainspan
How inflammation accelerates ageing – and what actually reduces it
Why women are twice as likely to develop Alzheimer’s
The outdated retirement model that no longer serves women or economies
Ageism as the last socially acceptable bias
Why older women are an untapped workforce advantage
How purpose, attitude, and social connection directly impact longevity
The lifestyle levers that matter most – beyond diet and exercise.

Key takeaways:

Up to 90% of health and wellbeing is influenced by lifestyle, environment, and access to science
Ageing well is not about genetics – it’s about epigenetics and choice
Health systems treat illness; longevity requires prevention
Muscle mass, inflammation reduction and social connection are non-negotiables
Retirement as we know it was designed for a world that no longer exists
Older women bring resilience, wisdom, and leadership – not obsolescence
Attitude toward ageing can extend life expectancy by up to 7.5 years.

Maddy said:

“We truly are becoming the CEOs of our own health and wellbeing.”

“Up to 90% of our health and wellbeing has to do with our lifestyle choices, our environment and the science that we have access to.”

“People associate the 70s and the 80s as being a time for falling apart. And I refuse to be that.”

📖 Read the full transcript of this conversation here 👇

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (00:02)

On the very first day of the 20th century, average life expectancy was only 47. So inflammation is a huge deal. ⁓ It’s one of the what’s called hallmarks of aging. So in other words, it’s one of the factors that really create negative health spans. They tell us that up to 90%, 90 %?

of our health and wellbeing has to do with our lifestyle choices, our environment, and the science that we have access to. We have fewer young people entering the workforce ⁓ than we ever did before. So in many corporate environments, in many entrepreneurial environments, we need the older workers ⁓ just because we need those bodies. You know, get rid of the gluten, get rid of the dairy.

get rid of as much sugar as you can. So, you know, I did that. And by the way, that was the secret sauce.

Okay, so ⁓ I’ve been digging deep into aging, longevity, the new retirement for close to 40 years. 40 years, and that’s probably longer than some of your listeners have even been alive. And what I’ve really come to understand is that a couple things. First, we women, we are very different than men. And the way we age and we

behave in the second half of life very different than men. ⁓ The other thing that I came to really understand is that longevity, it’s been kind of like a bro thing up until now. Part of the reason I got so obsessed with really understanding aging and longevity is because when I looked at what books and information was out there,

It was mostly dominated by men. And I’m like, whoa, this is really wrong. We need to change this drama. We need to bring women into the fold and have us better understand how we can live better longer. And that’s really what I’m all about.

DI GILLETT: Host (02:27)

What if everything you’ve been told about aging is wrong? And what if the only thing standing in your way is the outdated narrative we’ve inherited? I’m Di Gillett and welcome to the Power of Women podcast. And what I love about this platform is the opportunity to showcase and celebrate the strength, resilience and achievements of women from all walks of life.

And today’s conversation is absolutely one of those that we all need to hear because we’re living through a longevity revolution, especially for women. And as today’s guest points out, we’re living longer than ever before. Women are outliving men by five years and 50 year old women today can expect another 35 years in life. But there is an uncomfortable truth because we’re living longer.

but we’re not living well. And the average woman spends the last 14 years of life in declining health despite science saying that 70 to 90 % of our longevity is within our control. My guest today is a global visionary who is rewriting the narrative of what it means to age as a woman. Maddy Dychtwald is a celebrated author, researcher,

and co-founder of Age Wave, the world’s leading consultancy on aging, retirement, and the future of longevity. And for more than 40 years, she’s studied how longer lives are reshaping identity, health, work, money, and purpose. And her book, Ageless Aging, is a blueprint for women not just to live longer, but to live better, stronger, sharper, and more empowered.

Maddy Dychtwald welcome to the Power of Women podcast.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (04:22)

Thanks Di it’s a pleasure to be here.

DI GILLETT: Host (04:25)

Fab. Maddy, I feel so privileged and I know you’ve mentioned that you’re going through a cleanse at the moment, which I think is terribly fitting with the lifestyle that you lead and are promoting. And you’re a subject matter expert on the topics of aging, longevity, brain span, lifespan, and you’ve been recognised by Forbes as one of the top 50 futurists globally.

What actually drew you to this work in the first place?

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (05:00)

Believe it or not, it was just kind of by accident, which so many things in our lives happened by accident. I was working in Los Angeles as an actress, and I was an actress at the time, not an actor. I was lucky enough to be… I know, right? Very big distinction. And at the time, I was lucky enough to be employed all the time, doing a lot of television commercials, working on a soap opera.

And when I started to realize is I would go to auditions and they would talk to women who were like 30 plus as if they were over the hill. And I’m like, what, what, what’s going on here? What kind of reality is that, that women, once they hit a certain age, whether it be 30, 50, or even 70, that they no longer count, that they’re no longer relevant to their social.

lifestyle, workplace. ⁓ It just seemed so insane to me that I became really interested in it. And then coincidentally, I met my husband who had written a book about the demographic shifts, which he called age wave. So about the fact that we used to be a world where all the action was with younger people because that’s where the growth in the marketplace was.

but that it has really, we’ve seen a flip-flop. We’ve seen suddenly that while people in the younger age groups, ⁓ they used to be fast growing, ⁓ that’s where we’re seeing shrinking populations. And in the 50 plus population, we see them as the fastest growing populations. So the whole idea of what is old and what is young,

is beginning to shift as a result.

DI GILLETT: Host (07:00)

How long ago was that that they were talking to 30 year olds with or purporting 30 year olds were were aging Maddy just to put a line a line

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (07:11)

Sure,

that’s a good question. So I’m 75.

DI GILLETT: Host (07:16)

And look at you!

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (07:18)

Well, thank you, I think. You know what, this is such a really difficult thing to talk about because you can look great at any age, at 60, at 90, at 42, and you can look horrible also at those ages, depending on the way you live your life and the science that you are able to have access to. So, you know, most of it is up to you, but not all of it.

So yeah, at the time, 50 was considered over the hill. In fact, Ken and I, my husband, when we started Age Wave, we would go into corporations that we were working with as keynote speakers to talk about the future of aging and longevity. And at that time, 50 was considered over the hill for women and men.

DI GILLETT: Host (08:11)

Yeah. And that’s been a big part of what I’m reporting on the podcast. I’m early 60s and you’ve now become my pinup for 70s. I think I’ve become look pretty amazing. But similarly to you, it’s been lifestyle choices behind that. that

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (08:26)

yourself.

DI GILLETT: Host (08:35)

That is part of what I would love to explore in detail with you today, Maddy. Because you describe this as a point in time that it’s a longevity revolution. For the female listening, what exactly do you mean by that?

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (08:54)

Okay, so throughout most of history, people really didn’t have the opportunity to age. They died. ⁓ In fact, you would see that it wasn’t until the 20th century that we saw average life expectancy begin to skyrocket. as an example, on the first day, well, actually, let’s try that again. On the very first day,

Of the 20th century, average life expectancy was only 47. 47. And by the last day of the 20th century, it had gone all the way up on average for women and men, the average went all the way up to 78. So think about, yeah, it’s like year longevity. What I think of as a longevity bonus.

DI GILLETT: Host (09:43)

Goosebumps, yeah. Literally got goosebumps.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (09:51)

30 extra years of life.

DI GILLETT: Host (09:54)

So how much of that do we contribute to medicine versus how we actually choose to live?

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (10:01)

That is a great question. So a lot of the breakthroughs that happened in the 20th century had to do with science and medicine breakthroughs, had to do with antibiotics were suddenly very popular and accepted. ⁓ Sanitation, simple things like sanitation and refrigeration really helped us to live better longer. But today, the kinds of breakthroughs we see and the kind of breakthroughs we need

are very, very different than what they were then. Now, today, more lifestyle and environmental kinds of breakthroughs are needed. And I would say that the science is still evolving, so it puts a lot of pressure on the lifestyle choices we make. We truly are becoming the CEOs of our own health and wellbeing.

DI GILLETT: Host (10:55)

I love that framing. So the stats are really concerning, Maddy, because we’re living, as you’ve just pointed out, we’re definitely living longer than ever. Yet we’re spending more years in poor health. Where’s the disconnect happening?

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (11:14)

Okay, so this is a very simple thing to understand. So just to put it into context, we used to think that genetics were our destiny, that it had nothing to do with the choices we made in our lives, that most of our 75 % of our health and wellbeing had to do with our genes. yeah, so that, okay, no problem. We don’t have to care about what we eat or if we exercise or.

what our sleep looks like and yada, yada, yada. But the most recent breakthroughs in science tell us a very different story. They tell us that up to 90%, 90 % of our health and wellbeing has to do with our lifestyle choices, our environment and the science that we have access to. Now that’s literally a breakthrough kind of

concept that we are in charge of our own health and well-being and that the choices we make make a difference in not only how long we live but in how well we live and that is huge. That has to do with our health span and our brain span as well as the number of years or our lifespan.

DI GILLETT: Host (12:33)

Why are so many people ignorant to this? know you’re out there, you’re going and doing presentations. What is the reason? And I’m going to focus on women being the power of women, Maddy, but why is there such a large cohort that just don’t know this?

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (12:53)

That is the million dollar question. Actually, it’s the trillion dollar question because that’s how much it’s costing us in terms of our health and well-being on a personal level, on a societal level. It’s a huge number.

DI GILLETT: Host (13:07)

So that was my question, what is the cost of not knowing and it’s trillion.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (13:11)

The cost is enormous and part of the problem, part of the challenge, I should say challenge, is that we’ve created a health system in our country that is really a sick care system rather than a healthcare system. So we’re not so great about preventing disease. We are fantastic at treating disease once it happens.

DI GILLETT: Host (13:39)

we’re the same. Yeah. It’s that band-aid approach to everything of let’s let’s approach the the cure-all after the event rather than preventing the event. That is such a ridiculous mindset for intelligent people to come to.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (13:55)

Yeah, but you know what? A lot of people just don’t know, don’t understand. Also, some people just don’t care and they don’t necessarily like trust the science.

DI GILLETT: Host (14:06)

Can I be not to be a conspiracy theorist, but is it commercially advantageous to keep the system running as healthcare?

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (14:16)

I think there’s a lot of frustration with the healthcare system by not just patients, but people who work in the healthcare system. Now, I want to be really clear that most of the people who work in healthcare are very well-meaning and they want to do a good job, but they’ve been taught to do things in a way that no longer is effective.

And I think that that’s the rub. mean, the average doctor spends 15 minutes at most with a patient. I mean, how can you get anything accomplished in those 15 minutes? ⁓ It’s just not conceivable. yeah, it’s integrated into the system. So, which means even more so that each and every one of us needs to understand that there is a solution.

And the solution is, by the way, this kind of holistic recipe. It’s not just about one thing, but it’s about things like sleep and exercise and nutrition and social connections. ⁓ Your work life really matters. mean, all these things work together. They don’t exist in silos. Now, I know this is really hard to kind of keep in your mind without a visual, but

When I set out to write Ageless Aging, I reached out to my network of experts, which are top experts, researchers, scientists, physicians. And I was surprised that, first I was surprised that almost everyone got back to me. So there was like 90 people that got back to me. But besides that, I was surprised to see there was a lot of agreement about what works, what doesn’t work. So, yeah.

I think that ultimately it is. We know what works and it’s not about your genes, it’s about turning the good genes on and turning the bad genes off. That’s called epigenetics.

DI GILLETT: Host (16:10)

Good starting point.

Yeah. Now you mentioned ⁓ social connection. Yes. And there must be an interface between social connection and the fact that we are still wedded to a 1980s, an 1880s version of retirement. Because retirement is one of these things that does absolutely lead to social

disconnection because it’s the point where so many people come together. Why are we so outdated in how we’re hanging on to this whole view of what is the retirement age and when we call time on our careers?

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (17:08)

That’s a very complicated question. Let me try to pull some of the threads on that. You’re right. 1880s Otto von Bismarck was the one who created the first pension program for Europe. And at the time, average life expectancy was only 47. And he chose the number 65 as retirement age. So think about that for a minute. He was a very

DI GILLETT: Host (17:34)

Until

you died.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (17:36)

Yeah, exactly. It was not meant to be for anyone, for very few people. ⁓ Let’s fast forward to today where average life expectancy has skyrocketed all the way up to in the US, 78. It’s even higher in Australia, in Great Britain, and a lot of other countries. And what we see is that because we’ve been wedded to a system that was put into place

such a long time ago, it is creating incredible stress on our government and our governments. mean, it’s global issue, not just in the United States and then on us individually, because as you pointed out so beautifully, Dee, ⁓ the workplace happens to be a great place for socialization. Just to put it into a context.

My company Age Wave, we do a lot of research. And one of the questions we’ve asked in a very recent study that we put out there was we asked retirees and we asked pre-retirees, what are you going to miss most about the workplace? So we asked pre-retirees, people who are still working, and they said, we’re going to miss the money. And when you think about it, that makes a lot of sense. I mean,

Living on a fixed income seems overwhelming and seems like, know, wow, if I could delay that for a little while, that would be a smart move. So that makes sense. However, when we asked retirees, they had a very different answer. They said it was the social connections. The money still mattered, but the social connections soared.

DI GILLETT: Host (19:27)

And those in the workplace just hadn’t imagined it because they hadn’t experienced it and they didn’t. That was yeah.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (19:32)

Exactly.

Because of COVID, we saw a lot of people stay home to work and we’re beginning to see that change. People are going back into the workplace. Why? Because they’re finding that they missed the social connection, the brainstorming, the ideas that you can come up with as a group rather than being single-minded.

DI GILLETT: Host (19:57)

Yeah, I can understand that. We’re having the same experience here in Australia, Maddy. what happens to a woman cognitively, psychologically, physically, when she gives up work and it’s before time, it might have been imposed upon her or they pulled the pin or they’ve simply lost their job?

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (20:20)

Interestingly, while we know that women have won the longevity lottery, mean, we live longer than men, as you pointed out, in every country, ⁓ actually in every species. So it’s not just in humans.

DI GILLETT: Host (20:35)

That’s so yeah. Yeah. There you go

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (20:38)

Yeah, but we spend more years in retirement than men. And the impact that that has is pretty dramatic. ⁓ First, we’re taking off time along the way to care give our children.

DI GILLETT: Host (20:53)

So we’ve got broken income in retirement savings.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (20:57)

That’s That’s exactly right. Yeah. You know the answer. Yeah. We’re not getting the pensions that we should. We’re not getting the social security that we should. Then we retire early, oftentimes because we could be married if we are married or partnered to someone who’s a little bit older than us who might be getting sick and need us to care for them. ⁓ Add to that.

DI GILLETT: Host (21:23)

This

lottery is looking pretty shabby at the moment.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (21:26)

Oh, I can make it even worse. I won’t try to make it worse because women are incredibly having the information that you can be in charge of your own health and well-being and that you can find mechanisms to stay socially active and full of a sense of purpose and take the right steps to live better longer. Not only does that feel empowering, it can increase our vitality.

our mental energy and our sense of purpose and wellbeing. So yeah, I would tell every single woman out there and I talk about it in Ageless Aging, ⁓ there’s some hacks, there’s some steps that each and every one of us ought to take to live better longer, especially women.

DI GILLETT: Host (22:18)

And you’re a pin up for that, Maddy, because you’re, I mean, but you are, you’re professionally engaged, you’re out there in the community, you’re following, and we’ll get to that in some more detail if we could, some lifestyle protocols that are improving your longevity and wellbeing, the importance being the two things together.

Could I ask if you had the opportunity, and I’m sure you do to an extent in the work that you’re doing, but if you could sit down in front of CEOs and hiring managers in organizations across the marketplace, what would you be telling them about retirement and the older workforce?

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (23:11)

Mm.

See, that’s a simple but complicated question. For one thing, we have fewer young people entering the workforce ⁓ than we ever did before. So in many corporate environments, in many entrepreneurial environments, we need the older workers ⁓ just because we need those bodies. Second, exactly. Older workers.

There’s some stereotypes that they’re not tech savvy. That is not true at all. ⁓ There’s some stereotypes that don’t really take into account the fact that they have wisdom and accumulated experience that can be of value to not just themselves and their company, but to their coworkers, especially to younger workers. And what we’ve seen is there’s this great opportunity

for older workers to mentor young ones and younger ones to mentor older ones because they can share skills. And it’s very empowering for everyone. So I think that there’s these misconceptions and concepts that older workers do not have wisdom, which is totally false, that they are not resilient. And in fact, studies have shown that

The older we get, the more resilience we get. So we’re able to handle stress far better than younger people. And we know that, you we’ve been through a lot. We’ve been through COVID, we’ve been through up turns and down turns in the marketplace. We’ve been sick, we’ve cared for older adults, younger children. We’ve seen it all. So we know that we can not only get through it, but that we can…

actually prevail and do well. And I think that having that kind of a mindset is an incredibly valuable tool for any worker and that corporate leaders who don’t take advantage of it are going to be losing out come the next decade.

DI GILLETT: Host (25:27)

And I think on that aging piece, Maddy, too, with wisdom, we’ve only got to look at indigenous cultures around the world who actually value elders as distinct to how we seem to do in first world cultures. We’ve got a lot to learn.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (25:44)

That’s right. That’s right. And we have not learned the lesson well. mean, this one ism that is still very acceptable is ageism, especially aimed at women, especially something that I call lookism, the idea that, well, if you don’t look a certain way, we don’t want you around.

DI GILLETT: Host (26:05)

Well, we all know gray for men is applauded, gray for women is criticized. Proud to palm. Yeah, yeah, so we know that. Well, coming up, how inflammation actually accelerates aging and why women are twice as likely to develop Alzheimer’s.

If you’re loving the Power of Women podcasts, be sure to jump onto our YouTube channel and hit that subscribe button to ensure you never miss an episode. I’m talking with Maddy Dychtwald, globally renowned futurist and subject matter expert about extending our health span, our brain span and our lifespan. Maddy, you write that lifespan is the least meaningful.

measure of aging and that health span and brain span are actually what matters. Why are we still focusing then on the wrong matrix?

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (27:05)

I think the idea, okay, let me try this another way. Here we are in the 21st century and there are a lot of what I call tech bros who are at the leading edge of longevity and they’re great. I mean, they’re really, they wanna see how long they can live and they haven’t necessarily connected it with the idea of how well they can live.

So they’re investing a lot of dollars and a lot of time and a lot of energy into extending lifespan or life expectancy, which we’ve done a pretty good job of. Let’s be honest about it. However, there is a total disconnect between lifespan and health span and as well brain span. And let me tell you what I mean by that. How span it’s really simple. The number of healthy years that you live. So in

The US also in Australia, by the way The average person spends the last 12 years of their lives in a cascade of poor health things simple as aches and pains ⁓ heart disease ⁓ All kinds of chronic degenerative diseases of strokes people are frightened of strokes worst of all

Alzheimer’s disease and I’ve seen it firsthand. My mom, yes. I mean, when you see someone suffering from Alzheimer’s disease, it not only breaks your heart, it scares you to death.

DI GILLETT: Host (28:33)

have on.

That’s

right. Yeah, that’s right. How much has, and that’s an interesting point, Maddy, how much has watching your parents in the generation before you sparked you and motivated the actions that you’re taking?

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (29:01)

No, it’s a great deal. I would just say that, you know, watching my mom, my husband, Ken, his mom also suffered from Alzheimer’s disease and it manifested very differently in each of our parents. But watching both of them was, it was heartbreaking. And we became, Ken and I both became advocates for, let’s not see how many great caregivers we can get, which is important, but there are a lot of people

doing that work. Instead, we wanted to help fund the research to find a cure for Alzheimer’s disease. And you know what? We still haven’t found a cure.

DI GILLETT: Host (29:44)

So let’s get into a conversation we could then about inflammation because I think that’s, there’s a direct correlation here. What are we doing in living our lives that is the trigger to this inflammation in our body that’s leading to our aches and pains, that’s leading to the cognitive decline? Is there one or two significant areas you could highlight?

for us.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (30:16)

Okay, me, so inflammation is a huge deal. ⁓ It’s one of the, what’s called hallmarks of aging. So in other words, it’s one of the factors that really create negative health spans and brain spans in your life, no matter who you are. And what’s so beautiful about inflammation is a lot of it is within our control. So I’ll use myself as an example. ⁓

seven years ago, was experiencing excruciating hip pain. And I’m a huge exerciser, which by the way is probably the best thing that I do for myself. But I was like limping around to the point where my son turned around and said to me, mom, what’s with you? You look like you’re 90 years old, get yourself to the doctor. So I did and I tried everything. I tried ⁓ just, know, cortisone treatments and.

I tried going to physical therapy. I tried stem cells. I tried PRP. I did it all. And all of it worked for a very short time. And finally got an MRI and I learned that I was bone on bone in both my hips. I had been born with hip dysplasia and I didn’t know that, you know. Today they do something about it with an infant, but for me, like nobody knew.

even what hip dysplasia was 75 years ago. So, you know, I became hysterical. My doctor said to me, you need to get hip replacements. So I did my research, found a doctor to do a double hip replacement, both hips at once, but he couldn’t take me for three months. And so I said to him, what should I do in the meantime? And he says, well, get a cane. And I’m like,

Okay, that’s a great idea as a last resort, but it’s not the way I that’s not the visual I have of myself. So I reached out to my network of people, people like Mark Hyman and Andy Weil, and I said, what should I do? And they told me, you’ve got to fight inflammation. It’s that simple. And they told me number one, get out an anti inflammatory diet. So it’s not that hard.

I was already eating pretty healthy, it’s, you know, get rid of the gluten, get rid of the dairy, get rid of as much sugar as you can. So, you know, I did that. And by the way, that was the secret sauce. I also did a few other things, but that was the secret sauce. I started meditating, started visualization. All of these things worked, but within six weeks, I think mostly through the diet and I continued exercising, but through the diet.

I no longer had any pain at all in my hips. It all went away. I looked at my biomarkers through blood tests, no inflammation in my body whatsoever. So it is something that is within our control. So I would advise anyone who has those aches and pains or dealing with diabetes or heart disease, try an anti-inflammatory diet. It may sound really hard. It’s not.

DI GILLETT: Host (33:39)

And if you don’t believe Maddy, I came to the same realization only three years after you, Maddy, with the same thing. I was having six monthly PRP on my hip. I was booked in for hip replacement on one hip, but kept it at bay with PRP. Then during COVID, I don’t have hip dysplasia, but I have a lifetime of skiing and horse riding accidents that have caught up with me. ⁓

and bone on bone. had bunion pain. I ended up in hospital during COVID. And the blessing was with nerve pain, they couldn’t operate because of COVID restrictions. But then six months later, I too came to the realization that inflammation was my kryptonite, fueled by my love of sugar. And I

And I went cold turkey on sugar, which as you know, means you go cold turkey on nearly all processed food. Yep. And I’ve, I’ve not had PRP since I have not had, I have, I have ⁓ nerve atrophy on, on, on a numb leg because clearly my, my nerve was, was trapped, but I don’t have the bunion pain. I don’t have the aches. I don’t have the pain. I don’t have the sugar bloating that I used to have.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (34:39)

almost everything.

DI GILLETT: Host (35:03)

visually because it was causing this build up of bloating in your system. it’s a no-brainer and it’s just a commitment to doing it.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (35:17)

It is, it’s a big commitment. know, there were two people that I respect greatly. I’m always asked, where do I begin? And there’s two different points of view. ⁓ One of the physicians at Mayo Clinic told me, well, pick one way to get started with it’s, you know, exercise or what you eat or your sleep, whatever seems easy, start there. And then you’re going to have some success.

and you can start incrementally adding other ingredients from that holistic recipe. On the other hand, ⁓ I’m friends with Dr. Dean Ornish and Dean said to me, no, I would not do that at all. I would say do it all at once. And then within three weeks, you’re gonna feel so different, so much better that you’ll be highly committed. you know, there’s two different ways to skin a cat.

DI GILLETT: Host (36:16)

So women are twice as likely to develop Alzheimer’s. Why is that?

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (36:26)

Okay, so I don’t think that we know the answer to that, but we do know that it is in fact true. I think that you can blame menopause a little bit. I think that when women go through menopause and they’re not doing hormone replacement therapy, there’s some radical things that go on in your body. There’s been this assumption in the past

that the symptoms of menopause were just uncomfortable and suffer through it. But in fact, that is not true. They are not just symptoms. There are things that change in your body that have detrimental effect on your health, including the shrinking of gray matter in your brain. And you do not want that happening. And so I. The new.

black box prescription for menopause really does include hormone replacement unless, unless there’s a big unless unless you have reproductive cancers running in your family.

DI GILLETT: Host (37:41)

Yeah, I what what is the acceptance of HRT like in the US I know Australia’s Australia’s still mixed. I mean, I’ve I’m I’m 61 and I’ve been on HRT for the better part of of 20 years and even with my health care providers, it’s still controversial because I I don’t follow mainstream medicine I follow

compounding medicine for my HRT and I get wrapped over the knuckles for it regularly but I’ll take that as my choice. How are women accepting the fact that HRT is important in the US?

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (38:29)

Okay, well, this is a very complicated question, but the simple answer is things are getting better. ⁓ As you know, there was this huge study, the Women’s Health Initiative that was done. And it’s important to keep in mind that in the study, they were looking at women all over the age of 60. and they were using, ⁓ they weren’t using bioidentical hormones, they were using synthetic

hormones. In fact, they were using hormones ⁓ that were derived from a horse’s urine. So if that’s what you want to put in your body, don’t expect great results. And they didn’t get great results. What they found, they stopped the study because a lot of women who were in the study were getting heart disease rather than being protected from it. So that was what many gynecologists and regular doctors have

based their knowledge on. So they’re well-meaning. So it’s not like they mean to mess us up, but in fact they are messing us up. So the more recent science tells a very different story. Number one, you need to start hormone replacement early like you did. ⁓ You want it to start early. You can’t go into it at age 60. That is a no-no. ⁓ Second, you don’t want to use synthetic hormones. You want to use bioidentical hormones.

And yeah, those are two really important pieces of the puzzle. knowing that that is the science that is being talked about now. However, in the United States, it’s still not, it’s just beginning to open the door to the conversation. So women who are on the cutting edge of knowledge and information, they know it, they’re doing it, they’re great.

The average woman in the United States feels a tremendous amount of confusion and ⁓ fear, a lot of fear around it.

DI GILLETT: Host (40:38)

With good reason.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (40:40)

Absolutely, and I don’t blame them. But I have spoken to some of the top menopause specialists in our country, ⁓ and they have a different story. They say, yes, yes, you do want to have hormone replacement. And some of them even suggest that it’s just progesterone that is the problem for women who have reproductive cancer running in their families.

So you don’t take the progesterone and there are things you can do instead of taking the progesterone.

DI GILLETT: Host (41:18)

Yeah. Maddy, you’ve said it’s not just ⁓ sleep and diet and exercise. And I think we’ve touched on all of those, albeit we haven’t really delved into sleep today. But what are the less obvious levers that women aren’t paying attention to that we should be?

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (41:39)

Well, we talked a little bit about social connection, and I think that we need to just underline the fact that loneliness is the equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day. So.

DI GILLETT: Host (41:51)

Can repeat that? Loneliness? That is extraordinary.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (41:56)

Yeah, it’s the equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day. Yeah, so you need to take it seriously. And this whole idea of sense of purpose, ⁓ we talk about it as a nice to have, but what we’re beginning to recognize is that it’s a biological imperative, that there actually are deep connections between your brain health

DI GILLETT: Host (42:01)

Wow.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (42:24)

and having a sense of purpose. again, you don’t have to be starting a podcast or a nonprofit to be having a sense of purpose. You may not even have to go back into the workplace. Maybe it’s just walking your dog in the morning or taking care of your grandchildren. I mean, you don’t want to dictate to people how they get a sense of purpose. It’s different for everyone. So that’s something. But the one that I love the most is this idea of our attitude because

Attitude doesn’t cost a penny and it doesn’t take a lot of time, but there have been studies that have done Dr. Becca Levy from Yale was the famous longitudinal study in the US in the Midwest. She learned that having a positive attitude about your own aging and the aging of those around you can add up to seven and a half years to your lifespan and can improve your cardiovascular health.

by 40%. I mean, imagine that.

DI GILLETT: Host (43:26)

That’s extraordinary. But there has to be a correlation between that and having a sense of purpose. Attitude and sense of purpose are intertwined.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (43:37)

See, I think all of these things are intertwined. if you, by the way, money has something to do with it as well, finances, you if you don’t, using money as an example, if you don’t have your financial house in order, ⁓ your cortisol levels are going to go through the roof. You’re not going to be able to sleep at night. You’re probably going to eat a lot of processed foods instead of the healthy ones.

DI GILLETT: Host (43:56)

Okay.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (44:06)

I mean, there’s just…

DI GILLETT: Host (44:07)

cool.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (44:10)

It is, it’s a virtuous circle.

DI GILLETT: Host (44:14)

So with all of that in mind, is there a specific insight from these experts that you’ve been working with that’s actually changed how you’ve lived your life?

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (44:25)

Yeah, first of all, I’m very happy that I’ve always been big into exercise. But one of the things that I didn’t really realize was the importance of building muscle mass. ⁓ It’s critical as one gets older. think that recognizing the fact that sarcopenia or loss of muscle mass begins as early as in your 30s.

So you need that strengthening exercises. You need to build it into your life. In fact, ⁓ one of the physicians that I interviewed for ageless aging told me that he believed that muscle strength should be a new vital sign, similar to our heart rate and our blood pressure. That’s how important it is. So that was a big aha. What else? think as you get older, that’s

you need more protein and I think that message I mean if you go on social media it’s all over the place yeah it is and

DI GILLETT: Host (45:29)

There’s good protein and there’s bad protein.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (45:32)

That’s

exactly right. And getting into a precursor to an amino acid that ⁓ builds protein, I think is a little bit more of an efficient way of building protein than eating gobs of protein.

DI GILLETT: Host (45:48)

Yeah. Yeah.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (45:50)

You could never meet all your protein needs if you just like gobble down a lot of protein.

DI GILLETT: Host (45:56)

Yeah, and of course there’s different forms of protein being vegetable and animal.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (46:03)

That’s right. There’s one other thing that I need to underline for you that really I did change now that I’m really thinking it through. ⁓ I used to love having a glass of wine with dinner every night. And the most recent science tells us that even small amounts of alcohol can be toxic for your health, especially your brain health.

DI GILLETT: Host (46:27)

I was at a function earlier in the week and there were 20 people in this room and it was the first time I saw the majority of people go for non-alcoholic options. Now that’s probably got a high sugar component so there’s, you know, choose your…

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (46:48)

I know,

there’s a trade-off, if I’m gonna have sugar, I might as well have alcohol.

DI GILLETT: Host (46:51)

Yeah, but it was very interesting. And I know in talking to people in the hospitality industry across the country, that the consumption of alcohol, particularly with the younger generation coming through, has gone down. So the message is getting through somewhere. It’s a slow, slow burn. Maddy.

Thank you so much. I’ve got a couple of rapid fire questions if I could throw them at you. One word you want women to associate with aging.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (47:30)

⁓ Empowerment.

DI GILLETT: Host (47:33)

A daily non-negotiable for your own lifespan.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (47:38)

Exercise.

DI GILLETT: Host (47:39)

Yeah. The most surprising thing longevity research has taught you.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (47:47)

that I’m the CEO of My Own Health.

DI GILLETT: Host (47:51)

and a belief about aging you once held that you no longer do.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (47:57)

You know, I guess the one thing that kind of surprises me and that I wasn’t expecting was that ageism is real and it’s out there and everyone experiences it. And so when people say to me, my God, you look so young. You know, I don’t take that as a necessarily.

DI GILLETT: Host (48:20)

How does that land with you? Does that feel positive and a compliment or does that feel annoying and some other negative thought?

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (48:33)

I feel like it’s a social moray from another century. I think that, you know, this is one version of 75 and part of that and a big part of that has to do with the way I live my life. And it’s reflected in the way I look. mean, exercise and diet and sleep and all of these things together contribute to

not just the way you feel, but the way you look. yeah, I feel like, yes, I look youthful, but I don’t look necessarily young.

DI GILLETT: Host (49:13)

Yeah, and I think that is such an important distinction. So if somebody said, I applaud you for the way in which you live your life, that would probably land better than somebody saying, you defy your age.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (49:29)

Makes me a little uncomfortable. just, um, I just did a LinkedIn post about it because we need to find ways to recognize that as we get older, we, there’s different forms of beauty and it’s, know, I mean, we’re not going to look like we looked when we were 20. I mean, there’s just no way. mean, we see you.

DI GILLETT: Host (49:52)

and you look vital and I think that’s probably what we don’t say when we’re we’re applauding somebody who who looks all of those things at at an age that we have traditionally didn’t associate with those traits.

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (50:08)

You hit it right on the nose. I think that that is 100 % true. ⁓ People associate the 70s and the 80s as being a time for falling apart. And I refuse to be that, or I don’t want to be that. And I’m sure that I’m going to have to deal with some things that are going to be setbacks. But I do see a lot of people around me falling apart. ⁓

DI GILLETT: Host (50:37)

And that’s where the attitude comes in. That’s where you’re on the front foot in how you approach it. Maddy, this is such a valuable conversation and it’s one I could get lost in infinitum and I can see what has drawn you and your husband into it as a point of specialization and I absolutely applaud you for what you are doing and if you haven’t

found Maddy on LinkedIn, I suggest you do because her thought leadership pieces are so insightful and I’ve become ⁓ an avid reader of the insights that you’re putting out there. How else does somebody find you Maddy and the work that you’re doing?

MADDY DYCHTWALD: Guest (51:29)

Well, I’m not sure about Australia, but I do know that Ageless Aging became a national bestseller in the US and it’s available. Bookstores everywhere, Amazon of course, and they can also go to my website, agewave.com or maddydykewald.com.

DI GILLETT: Host (51:50)

Fantastic, fabulous. Well, if you haven’t got on to the health span longevity ⁓ area in terms of your pursuits of learning, I really suggest you do. And I suggest that you share this particular episode of podcast with somebody that you value, because that could just be the trigger to put it on your radar. Until next time.

Chapters:

00:00 The Longevity Revolution: Understanding Ageing

02:52 Women and Ageing: A Unique Perspective

06:00 The Shift in Retirement: Rethinking Age and Work

08:54 Lifestyle Choices: The Key to Health and Longevity

12:11 The Disconnect: Living Longer but Not Better

15:11 Social Connections and the Impact of Retirement

18:06 The Value of Older Workers in Today’s Workforce

20:57 Challenging Ageism: Embracing Wisdom and Experience

24:10 Health Span vs. Lifespan: What Really Matters

27:31 Lifespan vs. Healthspan: Understanding the Disconnect

29:44 The Impact of Inflammation on Health

36:16 Menopause and Its Effects on Women’s Health

41:39 The Importance of Social Connection and Purpose

44:25 Insights from Experts on Ageing and Health

Connect with Di:

Find Maddy Dychtwald at:

Website https://maddydychtwald.com/

LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/maddydychtwald/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/maddydychtwald/

💫 If this conversation shifted your thinking, share it with a woman you respect.

💫 Subscribe to the Power Of Women Podcast on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts — and join the conversation redefining what it means to age, lead and live well.

Your ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify keeps these stories alive.

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Disclaimer: https://powerofwomen.com.au/podcast-disclaimer/

George Donikian | Love, Reinvention & The Power of Partnership

by admin | Nov 3, 2025 | Ageism, Female Entrepreneur, Mentor, Podcast For Women

For the first time, I swap chairs with my husband, renowned broadcaster and Executive Producer Of the Power Of Women Podcast, George Donikian, for a rare, deeply personal conversation about love, reinvention, and the power of partnership.

From SBS World News to Network Ten, George has shaped Australian media for more than four decades. A multicultural pioneer, mentor, and trusted voice. But this time, the spotlight turns on our shared journey: the highs, the heartbreaks, and the meaning behind our symbolic spiritual number, 333.

Together, George + I explore what it takes to stay visible, relevant, and connected – in both life and work – through the lens of reinvention, vulnerability and truth in storytelling.

You’ll hear us talk about:

➜ The fear of personal identity and finding confidence in front of the camera.

➜ How letting go of perfectionism, of sugar, of control – can transform your identity.

➜ The parallels between media and podcasting: storytelling, listening and truth.

➜ Ageism in broadcasting and why visibility still matters for women and men alike.

➜ The power of partnership – in life, in work and in love.

George said:

“Giving it up is an incredibly big deal.”

“Listening is key.”

“The truth is the first casualty in war.”

💥 New episodes drop every Monday to power your week.

📖 Read the full transcript of this conversation here:

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

DI GILLETT (00:03)

I just didn’t present in the manner in which I wanted to. But seriously, how common has that been in your experience? You’ve worked with a lot of women in front of the camera. Is that an unusual thing for you to hear?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (00:06)

Isn’t that amazing?

No, no, in truth if I reflect on all my team members, my colleagues and on-air partners that ⁓ I’ve shared the screen with, I can remember very early on, again, there was a…

desire for them to be happy with what they saw and I understand that. I can remember the first time I saw myself on camera and my then boss Bruce GYngell said to me I’m going to give you something brand new. So I had just started or about to start my television career and I’m presented with a beta camera recorder. He gave it to me so I could get comfortable.

with myself on screen and that I could, he knew that I had enough critic in me to will myself to get out of any bad habits.

DI GILLETT (01:18)

I’m Di Gillett and welcome to the POWER OF WOMEN Podcast. I love that this is a platform that showcases and celebrates the strength, resilience and achievement of women from all walks of life. Today, however, I’m going to be putting myself in the spotlight because we’re going to change this up a little bit. So for the very first time, the executive producer, George Donikian, who is also

my husband is joining me in the studio today. And there’s a lot to talk about through a serious lens of reinvention, partnership, and the power of storytelling. And I’ve learnt much of that from the man sitting opposite me on the desk today. And as a partner in life for 20 years to find ourselves working together,

for the first time in our careers is really quite something. And I know a lot of people when you say, could you work with your partner, they’d say they couldn’t do it. I have to say this is the best career I have ever had. So without any further ado, George Donikian, welcome to the POWER OF WOMEN podcast.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (02:34)

What a pleasure to finally share a microphone on POWER OF WOMEN I know how important it is and has been for you over the past year. I want to commend you. I think it’s been extraordinary watching your growth because I can remember a time, it wasn’t that long ago, when I asked you to comment on a particular

program I was running at the time, I think it was called the Insiders or something, or the Informer. Informer. And there was a particular topic that you had great expertise in. It was about a new idea that you were pursuing with a couple of girlfriends. was called Partenaire. And I remember saying to come on, come and talk to me about it and we’ll shoot the breeze. And no, no, when you offered up one of your girlfriends, who did a fabulous job. you, Kim.

DI GILLETT (03:17)

Didn’t go so well did it?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (03:24)

a tremendous job. But you sat back and I kept thinking to myself, why? So why was it then? What was it that curtailed you? hey, I’ve

DI GILLETT (03:30)

froze.

⁓

That’s only three years ago. Yeah, that’s a very good question.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (03:42)

I’ve been watching you and not only am I very proud, but I’ve always worked

DI GILLETT (03:50)

Did

I mention he’s my number one cheerleader?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (03:53)

I’ve always worried that if I ever unleashed the beast in you, that ferocious work ethic that you have, if I could ever unleash it and let it do something that it was passionate about, you’d be uncontrollable. And here we are.

DI GILLETT (04:09)

But it’s an interesting point and I like to just explore that for the purposes of our listeners because it plays into ⁓ what I talk about ⁓ when I write in my newsletter on LinkedIn, Power of Reinvention. So I have been accustomed to talking to rooms of people, being on stage talking business.

know my subject matter expertise could talk while I’m underwater. But in all of those settings, I’d have a microphone but not a camera. And I think that that particular day where we went in to do a piece to camera ⁓ for ⁓ what was one of my failed startups with some friends, but nothing ventured, nothing gained. I didn’t like the way the camera saw me.

Now that was also before I gave up a 58-year addiction with sugar. And I photographed very differently, and I personally in my eyes presented very differently pre-sugar and post-giving up sugar. And so it wasn’t so much that I didn’t have the

the language and the knowledge of what I wanted to speak about, I just didn’t present in the manner in which I wanted to.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (05:44)

You didn’t like what you saw. Isn’t that amazing? Because that wasn’t a challenge ⁓ for me in that studio. I kept thinking, you look fabulous. Mind you, you look extraordinary now. Benjamin Button, eat your heart out. You do, but you also were…

DI GILLETT (05:46)

I hated what I saw.

⁓ I look younger now than I

GEORGE DONIKIAN (06:09)

very very fashionable woman who knew how to carry herself and always you’ve always known how to style yourself even from was it four five or six years of age and I remember one of those stories your mother said to me oh yes she ruined many a dress I’m so she was telling the truth mm-hmm yeah you always did know what you

DI GILLETT (06:29)

Yeah, so ⁓ and I had no issue with what I was wearing on that day but the perfectionist in me did not like what I saw in the monitor of the camera and I didn’t want to go to air that way. It was debilitating.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (06:45)

Had I known that we would have cut sugar.

DI GILLETT (06:47)

So giving it up. Well, giving it up is an incredibly big, big deal. am now moving into my third year sugar free, cold turkey, zero processed sugar. And if you haven’t tried it, just give it a nudge for a couple of weeks and see what it feels like. Cause it’s a game changer.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (07:08)

There

you go. So you have reinvented yourself.

DI GILLETT (07:12)

I have. I have in so many ways, both professionally and ⁓ personally.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (07:20)

So it wasn’t imposter syndrome that could tell your opportunity to talk to the camera. was you simply not liking what you saw. Okay. I’ll keep that in mind.

DI GILLETT (07:36)

But seriously, how common has that been in your experience? You’ve worked with a lot of women ⁓ in front of the camera. Is that an unusual thing for you to hear?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (07:51)

No, no, in truth if I reflect on all my team members, my colleagues and on-air partners that I’ve shared the screen with, I can remember very early on, again, there was a desire for them to be happy with what they saw. And I understand that. I can remember the first time I saw myself on camera.

and my then boss Bruce Gyngell said to me,

I’m going to give you something brand new. It’s called a Betacam recorder. Now, we’re talking a long, long time ago, before they were part of what was available to the public. So I had just started or about to start my television career, and I’m presented with a Betacam recorder, which is the one that basically competed with the VHS recorders of the time. The Betacam was a better bit of technology.

⁓ But the marketing drive of the VHS team won the day. But I had one of very first beta camera calls. He gave it to me so I could get comfortable with myself on screen and that I could… He knew that I had enough critic in me to will myself to get out of any bad habits. So he wanted me to watch.

DI GILLETT (08:57)

Why did he give it to you?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (09:17)

every night’s news after the event and to decide or be very aware of nuancing. Because what we were doing was showcasing world news in a way that had never been done before. What we offered, that is the original SBS World News team,

It was something that shocked the marketplace. know our commercial rivals hated it. They couldn’t cope with it. They didn’t like what we were doing.

DI GILLETT (09:48)

But come back to the nuancing if we could: And we see it on air now and we debate about it over the dinner table as we watch news. I mean there is a way of introducing a story that has grief attached to it. There’s a way of introducing a story with brevity. There’s a way of introducing a story that’s joyful. All of those things are different.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (10:14)

Yeah.

DI GILLETT (10:15)

And the opportunity to play back and see yourself do that would have been incredibly helpful in understanding just what the nuancing to each of those stories might be.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (10:32)

It was exactly that. It allowed me to understand how to do a particular story. And I remember saying to one of my first producers, language is key. And he kept saying to me, it’s everything.

And one person’s freedom fighter is another person’s terrorist. And we have this challenge now in this modern era of the media where there’s so much disruption, so much misinformation, and every word you use, every phrase, every utterance, you’ve got to be very aware of the complications that can be in the marketplace depending on how you say it. I say to people time and time again, you can say anything.

DI GILLETT (11:17)

Let’s dig into what makes a great interview. Is it a voice? Is it curiosity? Is it the ability to listen or is it something else? I’ve been interviewing people on the other side of the desk for 30 years to draw out their story in an executive search setting. Is it the same?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (11:38)

In order to draw out that information that you seek, you’ve got to listen. People will tell you a lot about themselves.

DI GILLETT (11:49)

I find people tell me things

GEORGE DONIKIAN (11:50)

You

hide between the marshes, so to speak. So it’s not what they tell you, it’s what they don’t tell you and what you’ve got to find, what you’ve got to seek, what you’ve got to discover. And it’s the way you pitch in and ask the questions that will open, that may open a pathway or a window or a portal that will get to the next chapter of the story. Do you find people… me, listening. Listening is key.

DI GILLETT (12:17)

Do you find people tell you things that they didn’t intend to tell you? Because I know that is something whether it’s in the setting of POWER OF WOMEN or historically in a boardroom setting interviewing somebody for a job. They end up disclosing something they didn’t need. What’s in that? How does that happen?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (12:37)

once you make someone comfortable and the discussion is one-on-one. Every interview is one-on-one and every time you’re on air you’re one-on-one.

DI GILLETT (12:51)

Explain that because you you’ve coached me in that it

GEORGE DONIKIAN (12:58)

Well, I’ve known the limits of my ability and I wasn’t ever going to you. She is Max’s daughter. ⁓ Your father was a fabulous man and we miss him every day. But he told me very early on, you’re not going to be able to tell her anything. And I’ve never really wanted to tell you. I’ve wanted to offer up stuff and hope that…

DI GILLETT (13:04)

Would she listen?

Yes you do.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (13:27)

And that’s not what everyone does, you’d like more people to learn by osmosis. They observe, they watch with great care. And the more care, the more ⁓ effort and work ethic you put into it, you’ll get more out. And I’ve always watched the very best

And I’ve had some terrific young men and women pass through my news journey and I’ve watched their careers blossom. And all of them, I’ve tried to give them the same sort of advice. And it just goes to show you how some people take it on board and embrace it. Some, no, no, some take it to another level. Yeah. And then others…

DI GILLETT (14:13)

Sometimes.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (14:18)

sort of, yeah, I think I know what I’m doing and their careers are fine.

DI GILLETT (14:23)

Did

you ever think you were going to coach me?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (14:26)

On our wedding party, I remember I offered up the microphone to you. And you were wise enough to say, I don’t want to be the news anchor here. Because you were. Because I was the news anchor. But you said, I’m very happy as the weather girl. And I thought, weather girl?

DI GILLETT (14:46)

That is how I gave our wedding speech. You were still on TV at the time and you took the microphone at our post wedding party to a large room and spoke. And I have always enjoyed the microphone but following on from you was not going to be the highlight of my day. So I thought the only natural way to follow after you was to do the weather.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (15:14)

Yeah, and you did well. I remember saying…

DI GILLETT (15:17)

said there’d be some stormy weather to come. Correct. There has been.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (15:21)

100 % right. 20 years together, we’ve had our challenges, we’ve challenged each other.

DI GILLETT (15:29)

few thunderstorms, in climate stormy days, lots of sunshine.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (15:35)

We’ve

grown through all of this and I think it’s very normal but I remember also you saying that you took a line out of one of my weather people at the time you said whether it’s just a forecast is never a promise. So here we are 20 years on and we’ve kept the promise to stick together and learn from each other.

DI GILLETT (15:57)

Yeah. Well, and that’s probably a good segue to talk about the power of partnership. And I never in my wildest dreams thought that I was going to be working with you or coming to work close within the industry that you’ve been in for the better part of 50 years. the industry has changed enormously.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (16:25)

continues to evolve.

DI GILLETT (16:26)

Yeah. But did you ever envisage we would have the ability to actually work together professionally?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (16:36)

I always thought if we could find a topic or a subject that we could immerse ourselves into. I thought what you were doing, the idea of partenaires, which was a great concept and something that you and your two girlfriends at the time… …offline dating. what I loved about it was that you showed me…

DI GILLETT (16:55)

our offline dating.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (17:02)

that you could take all the skills that you had garnered in your 30-year career as a headhunter and put it to good use, bringing people together, not just bringing super talent to a corporate organization. And I remember you saying to me, ⁓ one of the great challenges of bringing a CEO

And that was always what you were trying to do. You were bringing C-suite and above to different businesses that people would come to you and they’d say, we want a change of culture. And what I loved about what you did was you were forensic. You didn’t, and I remember you were adamant. You weren’t a recruiter.

DI GILLETT (17:45)

That’s a word that often is used to describe me, George, actually.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (17:49)

You weren’t a recruiter, nor did you recruit. You were a headhunter. And what that meant was you didn’t go out there and put out an ad and get 55,000 applications and weed or work your way through those. You would go not to find the best talent available. You always were.

DI GILLETT (18:07)

No went the reverse.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (18:16)

seeking the best talent. Whether they were in a job or out of the job, you would take them out of that job. That was the task. To entice them to leave where they were because you thought they were a better fit somewhere else. And it was that that allowed you to have the success that you had and also deliver some fabulous partnerships, bringing people out from all over the world to take on positions

DI GILLETT (18:42)

For anybody thinking about a career pivot and the power of reinvention, all of the skills that I garnered and acquired and honed over those 30 years are the skills that I draw on every day for the Power of Women and for the POWER OF WOMEN podcast because in the same way as I need to build a curated

guest list of who to bring to the studio to interview. I’m the client, but the brief is who do I believe my audience wants to hear from? What are the important messages of the day that would resonate with the POWER OF WOMEN podcast audience? And some of those people are referred to me in the same way as people would put their hand up to say I’m looking for a change of career, so it comes that way.

More often than not, my guest list is curated through me doing exactly the same as I would have done with an executive search of come up with a plan and then go to market as to who would be the best person to speak on behalf of that particular issue or topic or narrative. And then I go out and I approach them.

and garner their interest in actually being part of the podcast. And only one has said no today, and I haven’t given up yet.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (20:16)

persist persist persist something you’ve done all your life. You have a tremendous

DI GILLETT (20:24)

And keeping in mind where husband and wife, he could have used another word and that would have been a deal breaker. So persist is very good George.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (20:31)

Perhaps I could have used another word, but persist suits, because it’s to do with your drive, it’s to do with your work ethic. And the other thing I’ve learnt is you have an extraordinary capacity to learn. You want to teach yourself something, you’ve taught yourself how to edit, you’ve taught yourself how to produce, you’ve taught yourself to use technology that…

I’m struggling to master and that shows me a different level of involvement, a different level of… Yeah, curiosity’s entry level. We’ve gone well past that.

DI GILLETT (21:05)

curiosity and learning.

Well, thank you. Thank you. So how do we give each other space in working together? Why do you think it works?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (21:15)

That’s okay.

I think you have always respected my talent and my ability in my career. I’ve always been a champion of watching you deliver. That’s true. Over the years. I don’t think I can remember even when we had a personal tragedy, we lost someone very special to us, our late sister-in-law, Amy.

DI GILLETT (21:31)

I do. Enormous.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (21:52)

You were tasked by your brother who was in grief, who was shattered, and he had to go overseas to claim his wife’s body and bring her back. You were tasked with creating a funeral. And I remember you asking yourself, because you were saying it aloud, so where do I start? Not only did you do the funeral,

brilliantly, but you also came up with two state memorial services, one in South Australia, because that’s where her parents were and she was a South Australian girl originally, Amy Safe became Amy Gillett, and then we had one also in Ballarat, because that’s where she and Simon were living. So I remember watching you take that challenge from out of nowhere, and it was not something you had ever done before, but

You willed yourself, you armed yourself, you found the best people to deliver it. And if you reflect back, no, there was no playbook, no trigger warning as one of your podcasts, and she’s a remarkable woman and what a terrific.

DI GILLETT (23:02)

There’s no playbook for that.

And I rest

GEORGE DONIKIAN (23:14)

subject you had and what an enormous career and job she’s been doing for her community. again, ⁓ very, very, very proud, I think from day one watching you cope. And I shouldn’t have been surprised because I remember you did everything for our wedding. Yeah. We couldn’t go to Santorini because Amy had just passed.

DI GILLETT (23:37)

Mmm.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (23:44)

We didn’t want to challenge the family anymore. They were grieving. So we found a new way to have a wedding. we did it beautifully. And we had my daughter from a previous marriage, the lovely ⁓ Lauren, come up. And she was one witness. And your brother, Simon, was the other witness. And we had one other couple join us. They were told not to come. But they wouldn’t listen. They sounded like someone else I know.

just would not take any advice and they rocked up and you know made themselves part of our wedding party which was lovely.

DI GILLETT (24:22)

Probably should mention our connection around one particular number too.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (24:27)

yes, you’re talking about the number three. Well, you should recount that you did all the preparation for the wedding. We got up to the hotel at Port Douglas and just as we were about to check in on the honeymoon, yes, we got married at the Mirage Resort, ⁓ which

DI GILLETT (24:47)

on the honeymoon.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (24:57)

felt a bit like a mirage at the time. we went to, was it, Paul Douglas? No, Tom Cove for the honeymoon. And we arrived at our hotel and as we checking in, girl’s gone, you’ve been upgraded. And I looked up and there’s the card and there’s the number. Not just three, was three.

DI GILLETT (25:04)

palm cove

GEORGE DONIKIAN (25:25)

So that became our symbol.

DI GILLETT (25:28)

It did and it had been my symbol for years of identifying where my luck was turning when I needed a sign and I think I’ve told the story before where you mentioned I didn’t know quite what to do with the planning of the funeral and I woke up in middle of the night and I had a vision of Amy C. On the end of the bed and it was 3.33 in the morning and 3.33 has become this

GEORGE DONIKIAN (25:49)

You felt her presence very strongly.

DI GILLETT (25:57)

connection of mind that has become a connection between you and I now, where 333 becomes this powerful point and we note it quite often in the day. We quite often send each other a screenshot of our phone where 333 has come up and the quirky part of that is you’re my screensaver and I’m your screensaver as all good partners should be.

And this whole 3-3-3 resonance carries through our world.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (26:33)

We’ve been on holiday in Hong Kong and 333 recurring number.

DI GILLETT (26:40)

Turns up in the weirdest places. Where it shouldn’t be.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (26:42)

walked into a gift shop.

DI GILLETT (26:47)

and electronics, high tech electronics.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (26:50)

electronic

shop and sure enough there was this clock

DI GILLETT (26:54)

an old-fashioned clock, high-tech electronic store, every modern whiz-bang in store. I looked on the shelf and there was one of those old-fashioned clocks where the time clicks over on it and it’s like the tin number drops over. And I remember seeing it there and I pointed it out to you and I said to the guy behind the counter, I said,

GEORGE DONIKIAN (27:07)

And a head…three.

DI GILLETT (27:22)

Why is that there? And he said he’d never seen it before. It was there frozen on 333 and it wasn’t 333 time that we’d walked through the store, but there it was frozen in time, a 333. Very.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (27:25)

I’ve never noted it before.

Yeah, Eerie.

Maybe it was Amy who reminded us to have a good time.

DI GILLETT (27:40)

Maybe it was. Maybe it was. Well coming up I want to talk more about the media and the power of storytelling. If you’re loving the POWER OF WOMEN podcasts be sure to jump on to our YouTube channel and hit that subscribe button to ensure you never miss an episode.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (27:59)

that you get a chance to sit together and mark a special occasion. A special occasion is our 20th wedding anniversary

DI GILLETT (28:10)

And it’s not that often that you get to do all the talking.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (28:13)

No, normally I leave it to the weather girl.

DI GILLETT (28:17)

Do you know, that reminds me George, when we… That’s a fabulous pair of lips on the screen behind us.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (28:24)

Correct. You should explain the weather girl.

DI GILLETT (28:27)

Well I should because when we first got married and we did a wedding party I was terrified, which is ironic given I now have a podcast, but I was terrified to take the microphone after you. And the reason was because you were still on air doing the news thing. So I decided the only credible way for me to speak up

GEORGE DONIKIAN (28:55)

was to become

with a girl.

DI GILLETT (28:56)

was

to become a weather girl. So… ⁓

GEORGE DONIKIAN (28:59)

But here we are, do know what? 20 years on and I’m now terrified to speak in your presence. Happy anniversary, bye baby.

DI GILLETT (29:05)

fantastic.

George, coming back out of this break, I want to talk about ageism and visibility. And I’ve spoken about it ad nauseam on the POWER OF WOMEN podcast, and I have written about it in my thought leadership pieces via LinkedIn as well. But I really want to talk about how it plays out in the media. And you’ve got deep, deep knowledge of this. When we think about age and gender,

How has that shaped your perspective of women in broadcasting?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (29:45)

Let’s look at gender for a moment and I’ll take you way back to my beginnings at SBS in Sydney at the brand new studios as they were then at Milson’s Point just next to the Sydney Harbour Bridge. And I can remember walking into the newsroom and it was filled with men. We had one woman and she was the director’s assistant. She was a firecracker. Fantastic talent.

and prove that because her career just continued to blossom as she moved through the next ten years and she ended up working for some of the biggest and best organizations on the planet. But when I started in late 1979, 1980 at SBS,

I can remember all these men and the one woman. By the time I left SBS, which was late 1988, just before the year would turn around and become 89, I was the lone man in the newsroom. So, had shown the media world that

DI GILLETT (30:53)

Is that?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (31:01)

News services didn’t have to be filled with men to ⁓ garner results, to create headlines, nor to achieve ratings. So I watched that transference and for me it was a joy. I never had a challenge, never had a problem with working for a man or a woman. And I never saw one as lesser than the other.

DI GILLETT (31:30)

Motion.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (31:31)

That wasn’t the collective view of the media space.

DI GILLETT (31:35)

Yeah,

so what was happening in the other free-to-air channels? Were there many?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (31:39)

I won’t name the networks because that’s not fair because the world’s changed and so have they. And it wasn’t what they were doing, was what management was doing at the time. But I can remember going to the then number one network who came in and headhunted me. I was headhunted from SBS to come and do a brand new national world news on a commercial channel which really appealed to me because they, for the first time I thought I’ll have

all the facilities I need, all the tools, all the ⁓ satellite coverage that I require to do the best possible job. It didn’t turn out to be the case for only one reason. The two principal people were headhunted within a year of my arrival by Murdoch and taken to Britain to help him out of a jam and how’s this for sheer

history. Two Australians from one end of the world who were continually told know nothing about football and that is the world game, the round ball code. And Sam Chisholm and David Hill who had done the marvelous work for the Nine Network creating the world of cricket that captured the imagination of the globe and changed the way cricket was covered and reported on forever.

Those two men went overseas and created the English Premier League, which has just celebrated 30 plus odd years of success and is the biggest sporting platform in the world. And then David Hill stopped what he was doing in Britain and went to America for Murdoch and helped to create Fox Sport and Fox News. So a couple of Australians who could have stayed with me.

chose to take on the world and were marvelous. But for me, it was again stepping into a newsroom filled with men. There were some women and very talented ones, but when you go from a newsroom that was basically only one male and it’s the one on air. Yeah. Because I was the news anchor Monday to Friday and our weekend newsreader at the time was Mary Kostakievis. And when she wasn’t available or on holiday, ⁓

Li Lin Chin ⁓ was the one who had come in to add yet another bit of diversity to multicultural television. And then I got the shock of my life, they sacked her. And I was shaken by that because I thought to myself, multicultural television has a role to play. And that was to give diversity an opportunity. And here they were in their infinite wisdom, new management team, thought she wasn’t going to fit.

And I thought, this is crazy. And then it coincided with Channel 9 coming to headhunt me. So I accepted the challenge and went to commercial television to prove my worth.

And I said to them, you better rethink your choice. And they went back and re-employed her. And the rest is history. So I’m delighted to have had a small part in that role. And then the news team basically at SBS after I left was all female. So there you go, all power.

Because their attention to detail, the ability to work together ⁓ is pretty well noted by all good management teams.

DI GILLETT (35:22)

Let’s stay on on-air talent as we see it today. Do you think ageism is present in what we see on air for men and for women?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (35:27)

Yes.

Present.

The end of my career effectively was 2012 when the management team at the time said, we have a decision between you and that person and we’re going to go with that person. I didn’t have a problem with that. They were probably 40 and I was closer to 60 I think.

DI GILLETT (35:48)

How old was that person?

Yeah. so you think, so as a male, did you feel at that time the decision to take you off air was about age?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (36:09)

It probably was a combination of, I was the newer arrival, they were a longer term member of that team. Albeit younger. were younger. ⁓ And ⁓ they probably didn’t cost as much. So you put all those ingredients together and that package becomes one that you can tinker with. And look, I got looked after to the best of the ability at the time, but it shook me in a way that I hadn’t imagined.

And I would liken it to the end of a football career, where you have to reposition yourself and ⁓ look to the next step of your development. And for me, the thing that helped me get through it was one, strength of my wife, who was in a corporate position and carried the can there, but also someone who gave me enough reason to keep looking and saying, just create your own business.

go out and do what you do and show others how they can do their job even better. So media training and all of that. And I also got to do over the next 12, 14 years things like I did a documentary ⁓ for SBS on Armenia. Now had I been behind the news desk, that opportunity would never have availed itself.

DI GILLETT (37:29)

So ageism is experienced on both sides of the divide in terms of gender. When you look at the screens today, what’s your view on the age of those on air? Do you think ageism is playing out in front of our eyes?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (37:45)

Absolutely, absolutely. We know it personally, we know it through friends and the pressure they’re feeling to continue to perform. Look, it’s always important to perform, right? But working in a newsroom or working in any space where you can feel not the sort of damocles, but you can feel a gentle arm on your shoulder saying, ⁓ it might be time. I don’t think that’s a healthy way to work.

We hear about toxic workplaces. The last thing you want, always, is to create a space where not only is it safe, but you walk in the door because you want to walk in the door. And I’m not talking about the people who stay, who work from home, ⁓ which is a whole new development for me. I can’t quite get my head around it, but I understand we’re in an evolving space with so much technology. And I remember

only recently saying to someone, we shouldn’t be surprised. The age of production or the industrial age covered about 200 years. This modern technology era that we’re going through, 2004, the iPhone, 2004, the pod,

the little pod, iPod. That was the beginning of you being able to carry your own material around.

DI GILLETT (39:24)

And now we’re carrying our TVs around.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (39:26)

Well, we’re carrying everything now. I was told by a very smart man, I said to him one day, are we going to have reporters with a camera everywhere they go? And he looked at me and he said, absolutely, that day will come. What he didn’t know was he didn’t look far enough forward, nor had he thought about the arrival of your own personal camera and microphone, high definition one.

and one that would be available to everyone. not only have we reached the stage where every journalist has their own camera, right, and props, but we have every person in the world. Now, it’s all well and good to have a professional with a camera because one, they know how to handle a camera. Two, they understand the responsibilities of publishing and the cost that comes with it. ⁓

But leaving it to just anyone to have that technology, well, all you unleash… Problems and propaganda. Stories need to be told in a manner, if you’re a professional, you need to tell the story that’s most representative of the facts. Not your story, not the one you think is the story, but the one that best represents what has happened.

DI GILLETT (40:31)

telling is

GEORGE DONIKIAN (40:50)

That is how you get to the nub of a real story. But today, we’re seeing an awful lot of opinion because people don’t have enough time to produce the story.

DI GILLETT (41:00)

We’re sharing opinion here. mean that’s what podcasting is. It’s stories.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (41:03)

We’re

sharing more than opinion. In this particular case, we’re adding a layer of knowledge and a layer of experience and helping to tell the story. just, I have an idea that, you know, we’re going to do this tomorrow. No, no, no, no, no. This is based on what we’ve seen, what we’ve experienced, and what we’ve seen illustrated time and time again. And as I say to people, you know, every time they ask me,

DI GILLETT (41:14)

Noted noted

GEORGE DONIKIAN (41:32)

⁓ What’s the biggest challenge in a very heavy news day? And I’d say to stay above the fray, not to allow yourself to be immersed in the emotion. Because as we’re found in war, what’s the first casualty? The truth. And yet, we hear people throw around figures and names as if they know. And I say to them, where did you get those numbers from?

DI GILLETT (41:47)

the truth.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (42:02)

⁓ they’re around. No, no, no, no. Where did you get them? And unless you can validate them, those numbers may well be the fanciful numbers you use for your next lottery ticket or your next phone. Yeah, because they’re not any value to anyone else. All they do is muddy the waters, raise the ire of people and stir emotions. And what we get is distortion. What we get is anger.

What we get is hate. And what’s it based on again?

DI GILLETT (42:36)

My opinion.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (42:38)

and not being able to tell the truth because in war, all those things are clouded for specific reasons. There are operational reasons you don’t tell the truth for the safety of your troops and for the safety of others. But clearly that’s not going to win too many fans and friends on the social media platform.

You stick to your guns as a professional and try always not to tell the story that suits you, but to tell the story that’s most representative of the facts. And those facts that you can validate. Can’t validate them? It’s just whimsy.

DI GILLETT (43:20)

Speaking of storytelling, and that is what the power of women is all about, how different is the power of storytelling today, do you think, through this lens being podcasting?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (43:37)

Again for me it’s exciting to watch professional women who have a passion to help each other. I’ve noted that the great many of the subjects that you’ve chosen from day one have helped you cover a particular topic of interest.

that resonates throughout the marketplace, whatever the subject matter was. You talked about, I can remember very early on in one of the ⁓ very early podcasts, you spoke about the imposter syndrome and how it’s carried itself on not only on one shoulder but on two shoulders to hold people down. And at various times in our lives, we all go through this imposter syndrome.

Whether it’s for a millisecond or is it for months or years. And I say to people, the more you work, the more you surround yourself with really good people, believe, have faith. And it’s like a high tide. It will raise the newsroom or it raise the room. It will raise the school or in your brother’s case, it raised his

rowing team to a world title. And they were so good at working as one. What did they do? They didn’t just win once. They kept winning. And if I reflect on the man who is your brother, what you cannot mistake.

is that when he says he’s going to do something, when he puts his mind to it, he does it, not he’s going to do it, he does it. he, it is DNA and I should have taken that on when I said,

DI GILLETT (45:33)

It’s called DNA George.

Did you

miss that? When you said I do?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (45:41)

I must have been swayed by something else. Maybe it was just your beauty.

DI GILLETT (45:47)

No, well I grew up in a household where there was no such thing as a thinly veiled threat.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (45:52)

No, correct. They wanted to create a hazard. You were right in middle of that hazard. But listen, if you think about it,

DI GILLETT (45:54)

It was a fact.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (46:08)

It’s held you in good stead, privately and publicly, and we’ll continue to do that because it’s that drive to be the best. It’s that drive to want to be even better than last year. You don’t sit on your laurels. You continue to want to make them better. And I’ve watched your reach to make sure that your technology, the grasp of technology,

is better each and every week, let alone each and every year. So you’re advancing this podcast in ways that very few people can.

DI GILLETT (46:46)

Thank you. As we come to a close today.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (46:50)

no, you’re curtailing our interview. dear.

DI GILLETT (46:53)

I am.

Is there something, and this is a bit like one of these game shows of, you know, what’s your partner’s favourite colour and you did it. But a little more depth. So what do you think is one thing people don’t know about me but should and I’m going to do the same for you?

GEORGE DONIKIAN (47:06)

This’ll be fun.

⁓ what is it they don’t know about you? ⁓ I think you have a heart of gold. I’ve discovered that you have a heart You went and had a test and the doctor said, yep, it’s there. I had to sit back and go, wow. So you have a heart of gold.

DI GILLETT (47:31)

I have one!

⁓

Wow, that’s a thought you want to leave them with. Thanks for that George. I’m not sure that you get to stay as my executive producer.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (47:48)

They see you as a strong woman. They’ve also got to understand there’s a golden heart there.

DI GILLETT (47:54)

Well, and my reflection is similar. I can remember being absolutely incensed a few years ago. ⁓ You’d been approached to be on a panel for International Women’s Day and there was one particular individual who decided to make a noise about the fact that whether you should or shouldn’t be there. And as it so often is the case, when somebody’s

making a noise, it’s typically about them, not about the person whom they’re talking about. And that was in fact the case. And my reason for pointing that out is I think it’s probably underestimated just how many people you have helped along the way on their journey in media. And in particular,

women helping them on their journey, but generously giving your time. And I’ve been the recipient of that because whether it’s been through osmosis or the gentle, you know, commentary in the background, because God forbid I didn’t sign up for one of your media training courses, but ⁓ you have been a great mentor, a great cheer squad.

and in fact a great partner.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (49:18)

Well, it fills me with a great deal of delight to hear that. But I’ve also got to say that I’ve had my early days where I demanded more from my on-air partners. And I probably rode them harder than I should have. But it was always wanting… Hello?

DI GILLETT (49:37)

Hindsight is a good thing.

There’s industries built on hindsight,

GEORGE DONIKIAN (49:41)

You’ve got to understand too, to arrive where I’ve arrived at today, it’s because I’ve learned from all those experiences in the past. So I say to people, don’t be so stuck in your way that there’s an intransigence, that’s a word that Paul Keating made famous.

DI GILLETT (50:04)

Not often you can’t say a difficult to say word George at your moniker.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (50:08)

It was case of reaching out and trying to find it again because some file in the back of my office space. But in transigence, your desire to stay rooted to a particular idea and a particular scheme or a particular fashion is not a healthy thing. In an evolving world, I think that’s the most important thing.

DI GILLETT (50:36)

And that is probably a great closing message because intransigence and the power of reinvention do not come together. No. So, but what I wanted to really highlight was the power of partnership. To think after 20 years of marriage, you and I can actually work together and we’re talking about some pretty exciting things coming up in the new year that we might be doing together.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (51:04)

Before you go any further, do you remember what we spoke about before we agreed to marry?

We both said we were better together than apart. That was the, I think, one of the biggest desires. We wanted to see that if indeed that was true, and we would be better together. I hate the term, but people say power couple. It’s not power couple. It’s about two people, two.

DI GILLETT (51:36)

Get thrown around a bit though.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (51:38)

It does get thrown around, but what I want to make very clear, it’s about equality. It’s about two equals pushing one another and helping one another to be better. And you’ve done it for me on a great many occasions. remember someone asked me, and someone said to me the other day, I love your dress sense. I said, well, that’s always nice to hear.

DI GILLETT (51:56)

done it for me continually.

GEORGE DONIKIAN (52:05)

I’ll pass it on, my stylist does all the heavy lifting. They went, what? I said, yes. Once upon a time, my wife used to style Steve Vizard to George Donikian. Now she has a much simpler task. She dresses George Donikian. So there we are.

DI GILLETT (52:17)

to protect the

Well, that’s probably a great point to finish on, but the power of partnership, the power of storytelling, the power of reinvention, but the power of partnership is really something else. Until next time.

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