FULL TRANSCRIPT_CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (00:02)

When you hear the words power of women, what’s the first lived experience that comes to mind?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (00:09)

For me, Claudia Chan Shaw, it is a powerful mother. And having a powerful mother who raised a family of five children on her own, from the minute I was born, I was experiencing the power of one hell of an incredible woman.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (00:25)

Would you have the courage to say yes to opportunities and trust yourself to work out the how later? I’m Di Gillett and this is the Power of Women podcast and we’re a platform that showcases and celebrates the strength, resilience and achievements of women from all walks of life. Today I have the privilege to showcase the incredible career of Claudia Chan Shaw.

 

A woman whose career has never been limited to one sector or one role. Claudia’s career spans fashion, television, radio, curation. She’s an author, public speaker, collector, visual artist, cultural tour leader, and business owner. A career shaped by curiosity, legacy, and a willingness to say yes before knowing exactly where that yes might lead.

 

So today we’re going to explore what becomes possible when you trust your capacity to work things out as you go. Claudia Chan Shaw, welcome to the Power of Women podcast.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (01:36)

Thank you, Di. It’s so lovely to be talking to you in this area rather than across the dinner table.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (01:43)

I quite like a cross a dinner table, we don’t get the fantastic backdrop for those who are watching us on YouTube as we have today. What is in the background of your screenshot?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (01:58)

Okay so welcome to my home. ⁓ I have to preface this with, this is not the house of a crazy person, ⁓ I am sitting in front of a three meter high robot rat and why would that be she says and next to me is a giant giant key that winds the robot up. was, it’s a design.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (02:22)

We might be talking AI.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (02:24)

Now this is the real thing. It’s a robot rat because I designed it for the Sydney Lunar Festival during the year of the rat and it was one of the hero designs as a piece of public artwork and one of them lives in my lounge room. There were nine.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (02:40)

wow, now can understand why nine of them don’t live in your lounge room at that height. But for those of you who jump on the YouTube channel and have a look at this episode, this is the most divine display of Art Deco, both with how Claudia’s dressed and then with this robot image behind her. It’s just divine. But let’s, I digress. Claudia, what was your first job?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (03:10)

I was thinking about this and do we go with the first gig I actually pitched for or do we go with when I was five years old being selected to be the face of an overseas telecommunications ad? let’s with Okay, five years old, little Eurasian person holding a telephone. It kind of predates the phone home to Italy ads.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (03:25)

One.

 

First job? Where did the money come

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (03:37)

First

 

job. ⁓ don’t even know. Hopefully it went to feed our family.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (03:42)

There we go good good line good

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (03:45)

could have been a favour, could have been a favour, but that was my first gig.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (03:48)

first gig at five that trumps mine. So you’ve, you’ve got this tendency to say yes and work out the how later. I’m a control freak and an A type personality. And I have to say that scares the crap out of me because I don’t like surprises. Where did that instinct come from?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (04:14)

⁓ I think because I’ve always been told you can do anything you set your mind to and also working in the creative industries you never know what the next gig is going to be so if something piques your interest and you go you know what I can do that or somebody says to you would you like to blah blah blah okay yeah I can do that and then I always say yes and then go what have I done

 

And so it doesn’t mean that you go into every time you say yes with this. I am so confident about what I’m going to do for these people that it’s just not funny. It’s a wonderful, healthy trepidation. Wow, okay, what have I bitten off and how am I going to tackle it? And am I really qualified for it? But so far so good. And I always say yes. And mainly, I think, because working in the creative industries.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (05:08)

the opportunities are within scope. But how do you cherry, do you cherry pick or you’ve just said you say yes to everything? There must be a couple of no-go’s.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (05:20)

⁓ Yes yes yes there are I say yes to many opportunities and sometimes the most unexpected things ⁓ and some because I’m in this area where I’m sometimes quite visible you get all sorts of ridiculous offers coming out of the woodwork you know open your email every day and this would you like to appear here or would you like to do this and sometimes it’s no I wouldn’t. ⁓ I don’t necessarily want to want to associate me.

 

With what it is you’re wanting me to do or promote so. It’s generally yes and and the yeses have led to a very varied career one might these days used to call somebody like me a slashy now they call me a multi hyphenate.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (06:09)

multi-hyphenate because I was going to say if I bumped in what what’s the elevator pitch what’s the elevator pitch of who who you are what you do

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (06:19)

Yeah, that’s always the question at the dinner party, isn’t it? And what is it that you do? I’m a brain surgeon. End of story. ⁓ Not a brain surgeon. So what do I do? I always say designer first because that is what I trained for. That is what I lived in most of my life. And through design, everything else has come out. So designer first. Then I say I’m a TV and radio presenter. I’m an author. I’m a visual artist. I’m a curator.

 

So and and and cultural tour leader and public speaker. So everything goes out of the next. Well, and then this great look of confusion comes over them or they get out on level three and leave me there in the elevator. That’s too hard.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (07:05)

Yeah, because it’s taking you three floors to get all of that out.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (07:09)

I know, know, so it’s too much. When I have to fill out, you know when you’re coming into the country and you’re filling out your immigration landing card and it says profession?

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (07:21)

Yeah, that’s a good point. What do you put there?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (07:24)

I designer because design is the basis for every every other jumping off point in my life.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (07:31)

and which qualifies having this divine three meter image, statue, robot rat.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (07:39)

He’s 3D.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (07:43)

where did you have him built? I mean that’s just the most extraordinary piece of art.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (07:49)

I know, it’s pretty fabulous.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (07:51)

How do you know where to start to get that done, for example?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (07:54)

Well, because this was done for the Sydney Lunar Festival, there are whole range of ⁓ companies that have engineers and artisans that are able to take an idea on paper into a very, large 3D piece of work that is going to withstand wind and rain and crowds and anything else that…

 

it needs to cover, safety-wise, to be a piece of public art for the city of Sydney. So there’s a range of wonderful, wonderful makers that have to pitch ⁓ to the city of Sydney to make the ideas that the artists come up with.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (08:34)

Yeah, wow. So let’s come back to design and let’s, if we could bring it back to perhaps the origins in fashion, because I studied fashion design and there was a raft of Australian, well known Australian designers at that point in time in the 80s that I looked to as extraordinary. And one of those was your mother, Vivian Chan Shaw.

 

and I remember her work vividly and I understand the collection now sits in the Powerhouse Museum, all parts of, we’ll come back to that. Tell us about the brand and the persona behind the brand and then your involvement.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (09:26)

Okay, so it starts in 1972 when my mother is a very creative woman, no design training at all, but just naturally gifted. She trained as a musician, went to the Sydney Conservatory of Music, didn’t think she had what it takes to be a concert pianist. So then she discovers she’s married with all these little children on her own, she needs to make a living. So she goes to work for a bridal company where she’s the owner of the company says,

 

You can sketch, we’re selling beautiful fabrics for bride or frocks. Can you sketch something for this lady and show her what to do with some fabric? So she starts becoming a fashion coordinator and designer. After she’s made a lot of money for a lot of people around Sydney, she thinks, I can do this on my own. So Vivian opens a boutique under the Sydney Hilton Hotel in 1972 and she’s making garments out of jersey and silk and…

 

very elaborate detail and decoration on them. Preface this with her mother ⁓ had a little children’s wear shop in Sydney and Crown Street and prior to that in the 1930s in Shanghai where she used to make exquisite children’s wear. Mum grows up learning how to make little handmade roses, helping her mother in the business, fast forward to opens her own business. The Vivienne Chan Shaw label takes off

 

But Vivian decides, well, I’m using fabric. Other people can buy the same fabric. How do I become unique? How does my look set itself apart? So she decides to go into knitwear because she had always knitted, taught to knit when she was five years old by her grandmother. And so she started putting a few hand knits into the shop. People went mad for them. And then she started to hand loom on a domestic flatbed knitting machine, one by one, not cut and sewn. So the whole business

 

starts with a handmade knitted product. Who the hell does that in Australia? It is. It is.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (11:27)

It’s pretty intense.

 

So did that evolve into ⁓ those being constructed in garment factories or did it remain hand loom design by design? How do you scale that?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (11:46)

Yeah, always. Well, we say it’s cottage industry proudly. ⁓ No mass production. No mass production. Everything made by hand in Sydney. We had a decent size team. But of course, it limits your production. But that’s OK, because we don’t want to be in it. It is. It is. And you can truly say, because each piece is handmade, that each piece is unique. The hand is different every time it’s

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (12:04)

Yeah.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (12:15)

touches a design. So it goes from retailing under the Hilton Hotel to in 1986 Vivian looks across the road and the Queen Victoria building is coming alive and she says that’s the place to be and moved across the to the QVB. Indeed. And how many years was that? 28 years in the QVB. she’d started in 72, moved in 86 to the QVB.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (12:34)

you there?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (12:44)

We closed the QVB in 2014, so 28 years, but in that time not just retailing, but wholesaling and exporting to the USA, the UK, Germany, Switzerland, New Zealand, even Papua New Guinea to this crazy group of expats. So the label, while small and handmade, had this reach that was really quite extraordinary for a little business.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (13:09)

So when did the power of one being your mother become the power of two with you added into the business?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (13:16)

Officially in 1986 when the business became incorporated as a company and I became Vivian’s business partner and co-designer. Prior to that when I was about 11 I would be falling asleep in the fitting room at the Hilton and then going, oh can we go home now mum? And coming out and there’s a woman looking on the rack and go, Mrs. Jones I’ve got something fabulous for you, look at this. So this precocious little monkey is selling.

 

and on the floor and doing book work ⁓ and working with my mother since I was a kid. we also, when we started selling to the United States, I took a year off college to embark on this journey to go door knocking across America from San Francisco to New York. And just two little ladies just knocking on doors and we did it.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (14:06)

How did that go? Did that open doors?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (14:10)

It sure did. It was interesting because before we left, we went to see Austrade. this is 1982. And there weren’t a lot of fashion exports going on at that stage. It was pretty early. And Austrade didn’t really know how to deal with placing Australian handmade fashion with different connections overseas when they used a primary industry or something like that. So we

 

Went to us trade and some of the office trade offices overseas were very, very helpful, letting us use their office to make phone calls, set up appointments, do showings, and others were absolutely hopeless and had no idea what to do. ⁓ Some were so wonderful that they dragged our bags and helped us take bags to boutiques. And then we would literally door knock. So we’d do a stakeout, peer through the window of a shop and go, that looks like us. That looks good. I would overdress.

 

unbearably. So I’ve got everything on. And then we’d bowl into the shop, no appointment, and walk in and say, hi, I’m Claudia. I’m from Australia. And we have something fabulous to show you. the Americans would go, and this is, know, like Australia is pretty hot in the USA. ⁓ my God, your accent is darling. And so we go in and the staff would look at us and go, hang on, hang on. I’m just going to go get the owner because these are owner operated stores in those days.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (15:23)

Yeah, really cut.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (15:38)

And then I pull out the portfolio, start showing, and they go, my God. And I go, mom, come in. We’re on. Exactly. She dragged the bags in and we’re pulling things out. And that’s how we started. And two of the stores, ⁓ one in Chicago and one in New York, we approached them in that way. We took our orders and we sold to them for over 25 years. So it was just the right fit, the right time.

 

the right way to do business. tried that approach in, I tried the door knocking in on Rodeo Drive in LA. I was thrown out of the store. I was out of the store for loitering around the racks. Ma’am, would you leave? Excuse me, ma’am. No. Do you have an appointment? No. We tried some big stores without appointments. And then when we did get appointments, it just

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (16:18)

slightly different style.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (16:35)

You know it was some buyer that was bigger than Ben Hur and buying from multi stores and it wasn’t the way to do it. So you know the door knocking was hokey and then in the UK ⁓ by this time I’ve done an export marketing skills course at Monash University.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (16:53)

He says, hope he doesn’t cut it.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (16:55)

He doesn’t cut it and so and they send us to Los Angeles to do a field trip and all these different products from chef chef uniforms to ⁓ a mainstream fashion to this this quirky handmade high-end label and ⁓ Made the appointments went to Cal Mart where all the agents are saw all the people I needed to see and what do I do at the end? I’m not taking this bag of samples home. So I go door knocking and get rid of them ⁓

 

But now I know the difference. I have the desk learning. 5 % of the population of the United States can buy your product. Great. 5 % is huge.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (17:33)

5 % will do, thank you very much. That’s right. That’s all right. But seriously, that has to significantly feed into the say yes and work it out later mentality.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (17:47)

I hadn’t thought of that, I think so, because it takes a lot of kutspa.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (17:52)

That’s the word I was reaching for.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (17:54)

to roll into a high-end boutique New York City yeah and I’m here

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (18:01)

Yeah, yeah, no, that is truly, truly extraordinary. So how what what sits now in the powerhouse museum as a reflection of the brand?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (18:15)

So we have my wedding gown Sitting in sitting in the powerhouse so Vivian my mom and I designed that together and it was like You can have anything you want when you’re a designer and you make things for your wedding gown It was the hardest thing ever. We’re like, do I want? I know I didn’t want strapless. I know I didn’t want white. I know I don’t want a sweetheart neckline No, it’s white and black

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (18:36)

Why is it?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (18:41)

And so it’s a very special frock and it has been in several exhibitions since it was in the Powerhouse Museum’s 200 Years of Australian Wedding Fashion exhibition, which was a very proud moment for us. And it’s been in an exhibition in Bendigo on wedding frocks. It’s been in two Vivienne Chan Shaw retrospectives. So that’s the main one. And then they also have garments from different decades, 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s. So they’ve got…

 

designs from each of those key times.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (19:14)

So there’s another title we didn’t add to that list of skills and titles, job titles that you have, house model in other words. It’s clearly you’ve been a walking talking billboard for the brand for most of your life.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (19:24)

right? Yes, that’s true.

 

That’s true. When I was about 17, my mother sent me off to June Daly Watkins Modeling Agency. so I did the…

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (19:42)

connection

 

for our baby boomers listening

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (19:45)

Yes, we know how to walk and apply nail polish and makeup so I went to Dally’s and they signed me up to be on their books as a model as the shortest girl on the books and Then I transitioned and went across to Chadwick modeling agency and was the shortest girl on their books ⁓ Sometimes I felt like I was the mascot honestly

 

⁓ Too short for main catwalk unless they sent me out first or last with no frame of reference for height. Reference of course. Yes, but mainly TV commercials and print. naturally I was modeling for our label and it made sense because I’m available. I’m there.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (20:36)

Reasonable

 

price point, what’s the rate card for? Yeah.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (20:39)

I’m cheap.

 

We’ll work for food. And I think when you’re selling fashion, and you know this, Di, that it’s not just a frock on a coat hanger and it’s going to sell itself, especially when it’s something a little bit off beat. ⁓ It needs a personality behind it. When we would do showings for wholesale clients or export clients, I would be walking and talking and explaining and showing how it worked. So that works well too.

 

when it’s a very individual way of selling.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (21:12)

What is that fabulous line from Coco Chanel, it’s not luxury if it’s not comfortable, is that something along those lines? And that would play into the beautiful brand of Vivienne Chan Shaw because niche gives, it moves, it breathes, it’s got all of those, all of those.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (21:35)

It hand washes, it’s forgivable if you add or lose. It’s timeless. It’s timeless.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (21:41)

Yeah,

 

yeah, which is extraordinary. So that creates a legacy. What does legacy mean to you? Why is that part important?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (21:54)

⁓ I’d be may have gathered just from my my my gushing about how important our mother is to to our family because she was our you know our everything our mother our father our our everything ⁓ and ultimately my my business partner my mate. ⁓ It’s important legacy because she never blew her own trumpet she’s decided mouthpiece yeah wave the flag silver label go here go there so she she.

 

was always letting the work speak for itself and ⁓ deep down she’s really quite shy in that way whereas I’m not shy and I’m very happy to wave the flag and do it because I believe in it. the legacy is really important because with this lovely product we were at so many milestone occasions for our customers.

 

We were at their weddings, we were at the christenings, we were at their birthdays, we were at their celebrations. And so, and they would share those moments with us. So it wasn’t just a frock that you threw on, it was something that was part of their life, part of the milestones, part of the family. And I don’t know how I felt when somebody rang me and said, we buried mum in one of your outfits. And how do you feel about that?

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (23:13)

Yeah, there’s

 

a couple of ways of feeling about that. Yeah. Yeah.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (23:18)

Yeah, so because it was her favorite because she loved it so much because she was beautiful. ⁓ So it’s very, very powerful. Yeah, it’s very powerful. And when I go lecturing around the country, ⁓ people come up to me and pull out photos on their phone saying, I bought this from your mom in 1970 blah, and my granddaughter wears it now.

 

Or I was in Singapore a week ago and I’m sitting in the writers bar in Singapore with a group of Aussies and one of them sees a friend of hers and they’re chatting away and the friend comes over and says I just want to show you something Claudia and I said good to meet you and it’s a picture of her mother wearing one of our outfits to her wedding and I’m in Singapore last week. Incredible.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (24:10)

Yeah,

 

that is absolutely magic. You’re listening to The Power of Women and I am talking to the epitome of power of women, Claudia and about her mother and coming up we’re going to talk about the curiosity that connects Claudia’s incredible career.

 

If you’re loving the Power of Women podcasts, be sure to jump onto our YouTube channel and hit that subscribe button to ensure you never miss an episode.

 

I am talking with the multi-talented Claudia Chan Shaw and Art Deco is a deep passion and it shapes your work as a curator, as an author, as a collector, as a cultural guide, Claudia. What is it about Art Deco and collecting that’s captured your attention?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (25:10)

⁓ Well I suppose we have to do this chronologically. Everything starts with collecting absolutely everything so as a as a kid I’m on the couch now die it all began when I was a child as a kid I was a bit of a weird nut.

 

Okay, all right. I’m on your virtual couch. I was a bit of a weird nut as a kid. I’m obsessive about certain things that I’m interested in and ⁓ I was obsessive about Humphrey Bogart as an 11 year old. Now he’s, you know, dead, not particularly handsome. ⁓ I know it was pretty unusual. Other girls are in love with Rod Stewart or something and I’m in love with a dead movie star. And so I’m absolutely obsessed.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (25:48)

…is an 11-year-old.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (26:01)

My collecting started with Humphrey Bogart. So I had a poster of him that cost me a dollar and then I was buying lobby cards. was getting buying books, anything to do with Bogart t-shirts, badges that I used to make and wear this high school. And the collecting starts there. I even have a Maltese Falcon, which is, know, 1941 Humphrey Bogart.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (26:27)

Quirky kid at 11.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (26:29)

I weird, was a little unusual. ⁓ So the collecting starts there. And then I move from Humphrey Bogart and I used to also take a tape recorder to the cinema and record his movies, pre-videos and learn all the dialogue in the bathroom. My brother’s banging on the door asking me when I was going to be finished.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (26:51)

Anyway, and so there’s passion. Yeah.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (26:53)

Obsessive, obsessive. And then I moved to collecting tin toys and robots. So we talked about the robot behind me, robots feature. Tin toys and robots because when I was about 15, I sold all of my childhood toys at the Balmain markets in Sydney because I was enterprising but also

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (27:16)

That’s the salesperson coming through.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (27:18)

But I thought I was too grown up. I’m too sophisticated to talk for toys So I sold them all and the minute I sold them I thought you idiot you just sold your memories the things that you loved your little your little comfort things So I have been overcompensating ever since by collecting tin toys and robots Tin toys, so the collecting thing

 

then transitions into collecting tin toys and robots. Then through toys and collecting, opportunity comes when I’m asked to be a guest on the ABC TV show Collectors. And I go on.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (28:05)

⁓ sorry, that’s another show. is. That’s another show.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (28:08)

That’s right. But I could have ended up with Dexter the Robot, couldn’t You could have. So I’m a guest on Collectors showing off my toys, waxing lyrical about this and fitting into that that canon of crazy collectors. And then shortly after I appear as a guest, I get a call from the ABC saying, would you like to audition for a role as a presenter on Collectors? And I say, yes, I can do that.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (28:13)

Good. ⁓

 

Hey, I can do that.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (28:38)

I can do that so I audition and I get the role ⁓ as a presenter on collectors. Now the interesting thing is that I thank Humphrey Bogart for getting the role because at the audition they said to me bring along something you can talk about. Don’t bring a robot because we’ve just had four minutes of you in a segment talking about your toys. Bring something you can talk about. So I brought along

 

replica of the Maltese Falcon from the Humphrey Bogart 1941 film. And I’m going on, talking about this object and I get a call the next day, you got the job. And I said that night I watched the Maltese Falcon and it was thank you Humphrey Bogart for channeling my interests so that you kind of become an expert on whatever your area of interest is. So collecting leads to a role on collectors.

 

⁓ Which leads to an email from Harper Collins saying to me, could you write a book on collecting for us? Sure, I can do that. So I write a book on collecting and all its various facets, interview collectors, everything from Rolls Royces to Snowdomes. ⁓ And so that now makes me an author. Because of collectors and because of the profile that I now have, even though I’ve always been interested in these things.

 

I ⁓ receive an email saying, would you be interested in leading a tour to Shanghai on Art Deco?

 

I can do that. Sure.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (30:19)

Because in the connection it’s just extraordinary.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (30:23)

So the art deco thing again goes back to growing up with watching American films from the 1930s and 40s and these fantastic black and white scenes and wonderful environments. I’ve always been interested in art deco. In the 80s when we were exporting, I would go to antique shops and collectible shops looking at art deco objects. ⁓ I grew up with Erete prints on the wall, the great Russian born

 

Paris-based ⁓ fashion artist who did the most incredible designs for film and Harper’s Bazaar and stage. So I grew up with Airtay on the wall, who is the epitome of the Art Deco woman on the walls. ⁓ So can I lead an Art Deco tour to Shanghai? Sure, I can do that. And then I get an email from the Art Gallery of New South Wales. Would you like to lecture at the Art Gallery of New South Wales?

 

we’re thinking of a topic abstraction in design. Sure, I can do that. So it starts off this, so TV career then then ⁓ and then I’m interviewed on a radio station authoring, lecturing, tour tour leading.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (31:41)

Yeah

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (31:43)

⁓ And then also I’m interviewed on Eastside radio and the after we come off air the presenters asked me, would you like to be a co-presenter on the radio station? Sure, I can do that. So this is the yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. ⁓ Anyway, so collecting leads to Art Deco. The ⁓ Art Deco interest, as I say, was always there, but now focusing on

 

Art Deco in different countries around the world Shanghai, New York, Miami, Singapore, ⁓ all over the world and also an interest in art and design because my degree is in design. ⁓ Everything just comes together. collecting Art Deco, it’s the jumping off point for my later career.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (32:30)

It does.

 

Wow. And how many, over what period of time did this start to really snowball and shape itself as this portfolio of extraordinary roles that you’ve been fulfilling?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (32:57)

The TV appearance was in about 2010, think. 2011. No, about 2010. And then I was presenting on air on the ABC in 2011. So the TV kicked off there. But there was TV in my late teens and early 20s when I was a house model for Good Morning Sydney on Channel 10.

 

So I wasn’t afraid of touching that.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (33:28)

Who

 

hosted Good Morning Sydney in those days?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (33:32)

I was Maureen Gival. And I was in a thing called the Sheila segment for Sheila magazine. And it was an advertorial segment and I was their house model. So I wasn’t afraid of a TV studio.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (33:49)

Claudia, if I was to say is your career at its richest point now, would that be a fair statement?

 

Absolutely. And in the spirit of it being power of women and as we age being more visible with the opportunity to be more impactful than ever before, could I ask you how old you are?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (34:19)

how old am I? I have to do the maths on this. What year is it? I’m ⁓ 62.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (34:26)

You’re 62 and this portfolio. And you somewhere thereabouts. Yeah, there we go.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (34:35)

I could be 63.

 

I think, yeah.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (34:40)

63. And Claudia’s going, when is this podcast coming out? I might be 63 by the time the date goes live. Very good theory. Now, in terms of that, I mean, that is the absolute epitome of power of women saying, yes, keep going. No line in the sand of where this ends. You just keep going with this whilst this

 

Fabulous experience, Kate’s presenting opportunities.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (35:14)

Certainly I’m not stopping. Unless I was unwell or not here anymore, there’s no reason to stop. And interestingly, a friend of mine said, when I turned 50, she said to me, it’s so amazing you’re doing all this new stuff at your age. was bristle, bristle, bristle, bristle. 50 was the most amazing, amazing time. I turned 50.

 

And in my fiftieth year I had my first solo art exhibition. I published my book. It was just bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And I thought, here we go. Yeah, it was the beginning. And it just keeps getting more and more interesting.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (35:56)

Yeah, that’s extraordinary. Now, coming back to collecting, must ask, given ⁓ I ⁓ am aware that you live in a ⁓ Sydney home in the inner city suburbs, so I’m going to assume it’s not sprawling, but you’ve got a three-foot tin robot behind you.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (36:23)

meter.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (36:24)

Sorry, three meter robot behind you and you are a collector. What does your home look like?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (36:33)

Well, it doesn’t look like yours, Di. It’s not minimal. It’s a cottage in the inner west of Sydney. And I like to say my husband and I are maximalists. So it is chock full of goodies. So I look around me. On every wall, there is artwork with about that much space between each image. So there’s artwork on every wall, virtually from floor to ceiling. Floor to ceiling books, display cases.

 

full of collectibles, tin toys, robots, ⁓ fossils. Everywhere I look, there’s something. And it’s interesting, because there’s two types of people who come to our house. Those who look around and go, I don’t know where my eye will rest. There’s just so much to look at. And those who walk straight through the door, sit down at the dinner table, and didn’t notice a thing.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (37:25)

extraordinary and nothing in between. but are there many of

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (37:28)

I don’t understand how that works.

 

Interesting. ⁓ Sometimes if we have a party and there’s a lot of people, it’s split down. Probably three quarters are spending the party just staring at objects and asking about the provenance or something. is. It’s pretty rich. And those who just say nothing, which is interesting. I can’t explain that. can’t explain that. Maybe it’s a option.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (38:00)

could be over

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (38:01)

could be overwhelmed or repulsive all this stuff I could not live like that they might be

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (38:06)

be why

 

dust at all maybe maybe that’s concerning them yeah

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (38:11)

yeah what a terrible concern

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (38:14)

What

 

a terrible concern. Exactly. That doesn’t leave time for saying yes to all these wonderful opportunities if you do that. So not only are you immersed in art, Claudia, but you have also been the subject of multiple Archibald Prize ⁓ paintings. Yeah. Paintings. Yeah. You have sat for how many?

 

artists at this point in your life.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (38:46)

11.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (38:47)

Eleven.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (38:49)

11.

 

So of those 11 sittings, ⁓ three of the artists are Archibald finalists. Four of those artists are finalists in the Salon des Riffusées, which is the other Archie. One is a finalist in the Porsche-Geech ⁓ Memorial Prize. ⁓ One is a finalist in the Doug Moran Portrait Prize. really, there’s only about two who didn’t get across the line with a major Australian.

 

portrait prize but yeah three times hung in the Archibald which is which is a thrill it’s it’s and it’s very flattering to be asked it’s it’s very

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (39:27)

Lovely. But to be asked 11 times, that is extraordinary. ⁓ as a character for a portrait, I can see why. Once our audience who doesn’t know you, if anybody doesn’t already know who you are, they will be able to see that. What is it like having somebody else interpret you?

 

on canvas. How does that feel?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (39:59)

It’s interesting, ⁓ yet another example of saying yes. Can I thank you? ⁓

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (40:06)

Fingers

 

crossed and hope for the best.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (40:09)

⁓ Sometimes when the artwork is unveiled, there’s a lot of trepidation because you think, how do they see me? What aspects of me are they going to choose to accentuate or ignore? Or do we just go face value? What do you see? ⁓ And on occasion when the painting has been revealed, it’s, ooh!

 

Ooh! Isn’t it big?

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (40:43)

What’s that code for?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (40:45)

Wow, it’s huge. you don’t always, sometimes it’s, while it’s flattering to be asked, sometimes it’s not always flattering as an end result. you know, you love everything in my eyes, in my eyes. But as a visual artist, I also respect 100 % whatever the artist comes up with because that

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (40:59)

Yeah

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (41:14)

is their vision and that’s the way they chose to portray me for that painting. So I respect that but I don’t want to own all of them.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (41:26)

I was going, and that was going to be my question. Do you own any of them?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (41:31)

I do. My husband Stuart calls this house the shrine. ⁓ She’s taken over. There’s one in the bedroom, there’s one in the spare bedroom, there’s one in the dining room, that’s only a little one. There’s one in the study in the hallway. Yeah, this is shrine. Yeah. So it sounds horrible, doesn’t it?

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (41:37)

to Claudia.

 

No, no, and I must admit we have the good fortune of having, ⁓ my husband George has only been ⁓ asked to sit twice and the second time didn’t get submitted and ⁓ it was probably one of those paintings where we felt about it. But the principal one,

 

features in our entrance hall and it’s large, it’s not three metres, but it’s well over one metre and it is magnificent. is it a photographic portrayal of George? No, it’s the artist telling the story of his Armenian Greek lineage through the narrative on canvas and it is just

 

wonderful and it is a very cherished piece of art. So I can understand why Stuart has said build a shrine. think it’s a beautiful thing to do. ⁓ Beautiful thing to do. extraordinary. Well, what an incredible career. If you had thought back to all of those years ago as an 11 year old, could you have imagined half of this coming together that you would have said yes to?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (43:21)

No, but interestingly, when I was little, when I was really, really young, I thought I was going to be a doctor. Ha ha. That didn’t last long, that dream, because I was hopeless at maths and science and would rather colour in the book instead of read it ⁓ for the maths. ⁓ But when I was at college, I did a degree in visual communication design at Sydney College of the Arts.

 

One of the first projects we had in first year was like a visual diary of where we saw ourselves. And in that visual diary, I had me sitting on a studio camera, you know, the old studio cameras that they wheel around the studio with a big camera on it, TV station studio camera, with an ABC logo on it.

 

And this is, you know, like first year of college. And I want, I’d always wanted to work in television. And when I wanted to be a doctor, I was also going to be an author. So it’s kind of interesting that the way that that turned out. And, and before I went into the family business and, and became a partner, my mother said to me, what am I going to do now that you finished college?

 

what are you going to do? And I was specializing in photography and film. And I thought I wanted to be a still life photographer as in product photography, make something simple, look beautiful. And my mother said to me, I offer you a partnership, not through nepotism, but because you’re capable. And if you worked with me since you were a kid, do you accept? And I thought, yeah, I’ll take a partnership over being somebody’s assistant. Big head, big head.

 

But that dream to be doing photography, now my visual art is expressed through photography and that’s what I exhibit. the dreams…

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (45:27)

You’ve manifested it along the way.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (45:29)

have

 

have come through yeah which is

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (45:32)

Yeah, it is.

 

Well, there’s a lot of drive behind that, but there is a vision and a desire and a passion and a talent all wrapped together that has created this absolutely extraordinary career that you have built and absolutely exploded out onto the stage over the last 10 or 15 years. Quite extraordinary.

 

Some rapid fire questions to close for you today, Claudia. One yes that changed everything.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (46:13)

Collectors.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (46:16)

Best example of where saying yes and working it out later paid off.

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (46:22)

⁓ taking on role as a curator for the Sydney Chinese New Year Festival for three years.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (46:28)

And finally, what advice would you give a woman who feels pulled in many directions but fears she should just choose one?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (46:38)

You don’t have to limit yourself to anything. I don’t believe in that. Just because you train to be something doesn’t mean that’s what you need to be for rest of your life. Don’t be afraid to say yes. Don’t be afraid to have a lot of balls in the air. And if you feel frustrated, drop some of the balls. But go for something because it interests you, because you’ll learn from it, because you think you can master it. And if you don’t master it, use one of the other balls. But don’t limit yourself to one.

 

if that’s the way you’re being pulled.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (47:09)

Yeah, I absolutely love that. Claudia, you’ve just got back off a recent tour from Singapore. Are there more tours in the wind for 2026?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (47:21)

Yes, in May I’m taking a group on an Art Nouveau tour to Spain and it’s from Gaudí to Guggenheim. So we’re going through Spain, we’re going to Bilbao to the Guggenheim Museum up there, we’re going to Madrid and then finishing in Barcelona to study the work of the wonderful Mr. Gaudí.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (47:41)

So how, if somebody’s interested in jumping onto your tours, how do they do that?

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (47:47)

So the tours are through the Art Gallery Society in New South Wales, the World Art Tours, but if they go to Renaissance Tours, which is renasancetours.com.au, and just type in Claudia Chan Shaw or Spain or look at the list of wonderful tours offered, they will find many, many special interest tours on the Renaissance Tours.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (48:09)

website. ⁓

 

CLAUDIA CHAN SHAW [GUEST] (48:17)

Yeah, Collectors is no longer up anymore, but the last show that I’ve been working on is Antiques Down Under, that’s available to watch online now.

 

DI GILLETT [HOST] (48:28)

nine now. Fantastic. So there’s plenty of Claudia available out there. But what I would like to close with today as just wrapping up everything that we’ve heard from Claudia today. I think ⁓ in essence, Claudia did that with the response to her final question of, do not limit yourself and this wonderful ⁓ resulting career that has come from

 

not being afraid to say yes, to take a risk and to work out the how later. Claudia is just an example of one of the most diverse, extraordinary and compelling careers that has come as a result of that. We have a fair dose of talent and chutzpah beneath it and the ability to sell because I think there is.

 

an ability to actually take that to market that underpins everything that Claudia has done. And then if you said, where does that come back to? There’s an enormous dose of self-belief and I can’t underestimate that enough. And if you have somebody in your sphere who you think needs to have a small injection of self-belief and

 

an example of taking a risk and what you can do. Share this episode and be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss the next upcoming one. Until next time.